bbyatv July 23, 2007 Share July 23, 2007 (edited) I have been running the closed loop shown below for about two months. It took some tweaks to get rid of the micro bubbles, but is now running very nice. I have placed 2 Hydor rotating deflectors on two of the returns to help create some random flow patterns. With the lights in place. With the lights in place from the front. You can not see the returns in the tank from this perspective. (Notice no Acros due to the crash http://www.wamas.org/forums/index.php?act=...=4&t=15559) A Mag 12 behind the tank drives the loop. Any thoughts or ideas on making it better let me know. Bruce Edited July 23, 2007 by bbyatv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigJPDC July 23, 2007 Share July 23, 2007 love it - no powerheads! Just zoomed in - using a ball valve for the priming tower is pure genius. I fought micro bubbles in my CL for a long time, and finally traced it to my own priming tower, which was just a male threaded end and a cap. I must have used half a roll of teflon tape and have it so tight that I know I'll never get it off, and so I have put off cleaning the pump and system as a result. jp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbyatv July 23, 2007 Author Share July 23, 2007 JP, Thanks for the comments. The ball valve works great. I love not having any power heads in the tank. One because it looks nicer, and two becuase I am not adding any heat to the water that I then would have to cool with the chiller. Over all the tank is cleaner looking, has more adjutable flow patterns (8 return jets), and I am now adding a lot less heat to the system. The mag 12 is outside the water. Bruce love it - no powerheads! Just zoomed in - using a ball valve for the priming tower is pure genius. I fought micro bubbles in my CL for a long time, and finally traced it to my own priming tower, which was just a male threaded end and a cap. I must have used half a roll of teflon tape and have it so tight that I know I'll never get it off, and so I have put off cleaning the pump and system as a result. jp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnguyen4007 July 23, 2007 Share July 23, 2007 that's a great idea putting the mag 12 outside of the tank. i didn't know that we can do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigJPDC July 23, 2007 Share July 23, 2007 of course - the Mag9.5 on my HOB CL is also external. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dchild July 24, 2007 Share July 24, 2007 I run a Mag 7 external CL, tho the pump gets pretty hot so I put a fan on it. A lot of heat that could be going into my tank instead! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason the filter freak July 25, 2007 Share July 25, 2007 What the heck kind of HOB filter is that and more importantly where did you find those CPVC valves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbyatv July 25, 2007 Author Share July 25, 2007 The HOB filter is a Penguin Biowheel 350 with the bio wheels removed. I use it for water movemen and to break surface tension. I sometimes will also put carbon in it. As far as the CPVC valves, I found them up at Home Depot. Not as easy to adjust as gate valves, but a lot less money and much smaller. Bruce What the heck kind of HOB filter is that and more importantly where did you find those CPVC valves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dschflier July 25, 2007 Share July 25, 2007 Very nice. Which is the priming tower? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbyatv July 25, 2007 Author Share July 25, 2007 Last picture in the series, largest valve in the upper right hand corner. Bruce Very nice. Which is the priming tower? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason the filter freak July 26, 2007 Share July 26, 2007 Hey would you mind sharing a cost estimate on that project? I've been wanting to do this for a long long time and never had the guts to try it in fear that I'd royaly screw it up. But i'd like to do one of these on a upcomming 75 gal project for a friend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbyatv July 26, 2007 Author Share July 26, 2007 1 Mag 12 Pump $150.00 @ BRK Approximately 40 Fittings @ roughly $1.00 each (some less some more) Approximately 6 Unions @ roughly $3.00 each Approximately 6 Ball Valves @ roughly $3.00 each 1 stick 1/2" CPVC @ roughly $3.00 1 stick 3/4" PVC @ roughly $5.00 Very rough total cost $234.00 I bouth the pump at BRK and I bouth the PVC, CPVC, and fittings at Home Depot Bruce Hey would you mind sharing a cost estimate on that project? I've been wanting to do this for a long long time and never had the guts to try it in fear that I'd royaly screw it up. But i'd like to do one of these on a upcomming 75 gal project for a friend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason the filter freak July 26, 2007 Share July 26, 2007 1 Mag 12 Pump $150.00 @ BRKApproximately 40 Fittings @ roughly $1.00 each (some less some more) Approximately 6 Unions @ roughly $3.00 each Approximately 6 Ball Valves @ roughly $3.00 each 1 stick 1/2" CPVC @ roughly $3.00 1 stick 3/4" PVC @ roughly $5.00 Very rough total cost $234.00 I bouth the pump at BRK and I bouth the PVC, CPVC, and fittings at Home Depot Bruce Great, he how did you scale between the PVC and CPVC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbyatv July 26, 2007 Author Share July 26, 2007 Take a look at the last photo in the series and you can see where I drop from PVC to CPVC. I just kept trying different style and size fittings until I found one the would bring the two together. Bruce Great, he how did you scale between the PVC and CPVC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dchild July 27, 2007 Share July 27, 2007 But i'd like to do one of these on a upcomming 75 gal project for a friend If you are building a new one, I recommend you consider larger diameter pipe. I replaced my 3/4" return plumbing with 1-1/4" in an attempt to add a second Mag7, both returning through the same pipe. I had one lying around and I thought the first one wasn't moving enough water. After replacing the plumbing my return couldn't keep up with even 1 Mag 7; I had to dial it back. Bigger PVC takes more space and it's more expensive (esp the fittings) but the reduced drag makes a big difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason the filter freak July 29, 2007 Share July 29, 2007 such as half inch rather than cpvc? I'm also going to dedicate a single pump to the closed loop not have it branch from the return, and getting larger pipe eventaully completely defeats the purpose because it becomes obtrusive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dchild July 29, 2007 Share July 29, 2007 such as half inch rather than cpvc? I'm also going to dedicate a single pump to the closed loop not have it branch from the return, and getting larger pipe eventaully completely defeats the purpose because it becomes obtrusive IMO, you should not use less than 1" unless you absolutely have to, and you should consider using bigger than 1". I have used 1/2", 3/4" and 1-1/4" and can attest to the difference in flow from the same pump. If you cannot use large diameter PVC for the whole thing, consider some alternatives: 1) Make all the plumbing >= 1" from the pump up to the back of the tank, then bring it down to 3/4" or whatever for just the last bit which you see in the tank (in other words, if you can't make the whole thing out of big pipe, make as much as you can out of big pipe) 2) Make several parallel small-diameter paths for the entire length of the plumbing, i.e. 2x 3x4" lines side by side. This is less efficient since the flow area is proportional to the square of the diameter (exponential increase) while multiple lines are linear, but will still make a big difference. 3) Related to 1 and 2, use multiple nozzles into the tank, and multiple drains if you can. Notice how bbyatv has several nozzles going back into the tank, and they are smaller plumbing than the rest. This is smart as the several nozzles, even at a smaller diameter, put much less pressure on the pump and allow more flow. 4) If you have to make a choice, I would consider the diameter of the "return" pluming to the pump more important than the plumbing from the pump back to the tank, since the pump is far better at pushing water than pulling water. Looks like bbyatv does this as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason the filter freak August 2, 2007 Share August 2, 2007 Looks like you've sparked something here bruce, off to the DIY work I go! wee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbyatv August 6, 2007 Author Share August 6, 2007 (edited) I wanted to open the valves on my closed loop a little more and get more flow. In order to open the valves up on the return lines without causing cavitation in the Mag pump, I upgraded my feed line to the pump from 3/4" to 1-1/4" PVC. Here are some pics. I picked up the 1-1/4" screen from BRK during the social. Compare the feed line to the original shown in the pictures above. Bruce If you are building a new one, I recommend you consider larger diameter pipe. I replaced my 3/4" return plumbing with 1-1/4" in an attempt to add a second Mag7, both returning through the same pipe. I had one lying around and I thought the first one wasn't moving enough water. After replacing the plumbing my return couldn't keep up with even 1 Mag 7; I had to dial it back. Bigger PVC takes more space and it's more expensive (esp the fittings) but the reduced drag makes a big difference. Edited August 6, 2007 by bbyatv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason the filter freak August 7, 2007 Share August 7, 2007 What did you use to scale back down to the 3/4 intake on the mag pump? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbyatv August 7, 2007 Author Share August 7, 2007 (edited) In order to get the largest amount of water possible into the pump, I did not want to thread a fitting into the pump. This would put me in a situation where no matter how big the pipe down to the pump was, it would still have to neck down to a 3/4 NPT fitting. Not good. So what I did was find a rubber coupling like the one in the picture below to connect to the outside of the pump nipple. This gave me the maximum inlet flow area that I could get. If you look at the pictures above, you can see the rubber coupling. By the way, the new 1-1/4" supply line works great. I am able to open up the return line valves as much as I want now without getting cavitation in the pump. I am getting tons of water movement. Bruce What did you use to scale back down to the 3/4 intake on the mag pump? Edited August 7, 2007 by bbyatv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dchild August 7, 2007 Share August 7, 2007 By the way, the new 1-1/4" supply line works great. I am able to open up the return line valves as much as I want now without getting cavitation in the pump. I am getting tons of water movement. Good to hear! I was surprised how much difference bigger plumbing made in my case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason the filter freak August 7, 2007 Share August 7, 2007 Awesome, where did you get that joiner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbyatv August 7, 2007 Author Share August 7, 2007 Ace Hardware. I had to buy a "J" shaped tube and cut out the section I wanted. Bruce Awesome, where did you get that joiner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigJPDC August 7, 2007 Share August 7, 2007 I think you are brave to put that boot on the ground like that, but it's another great idea to try from this thread. My experience with a Mag9.5 was the opposite - until I went down to 3/4" plumbing I could never open it up it was so loud, and now on my 3/4-1/2 CL I'm not even using a valve. Weird. jp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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