MY 40gl plan!!

[toastiireefs]

ok so here i will plan my reef tank option and at seahorse.org i will plan my seahorse option for this tank and then decide later

 

so this is my equipment list

 

40gl tank

are their ho-t5s that fit on a stretch hex- or any type of lights that fit on the stretch hex

50#LR

45#sand

heater

skimmer- so i never got a clear consensis on what a good skimmer was-

 

and all the micellanious (sp?) equpitment

 

then live stock

pair of clowns

1 flame angel

1pearly jawfish

2 gobies

 

snails

and other inverts i havent decided yet

[treesprite]

what will the overall factor be in determining which option you will chose?

[toastiireefs]

idk yet.. i am still deciding--

if i get the tank and set up and cycled and eveything i still dont know which id choose-- i really and torn

 

i would love to have a little reefs- mainly zoas and mushrooms maybe something more light demanding if i get good lights

 

tht miight be my determining factor.. lights

 

i know someone who had clowns and a seahorse together and it worked out fine but i dont think its a good idea-

clowns too agressive and seahorses too mellow

[toastiireefs]

where should i get my LR from- i as thinking some from fosters and some from PA

 

and i still not sure what skimmer i want

i might do a sump

i need a pump

 

so add a mag 5/7 -?

and a 10gl tank-27$

 

so i want to try and buy stuff second hand but not crappy stuff that i will have toupgrade

[lanman]

where should i get my LR from- i as thinking some from fosters and some from PA

 

and i still not sure what skimmer i want

i might do a sump

i need a pump

 

so add a mag 5/7 -?

and a 10gl tank-27$

 

so i want to try and buy stuff second hand but not crappy stuff that i will have toupgrade

Is money an object? There are people here in the 'for sale' section often selling live rock for significantly less than you can get it otherwise. On 50 pounds of LR, you could save $150 or so.

 

bob

[akbuuur]

for a skimmer id go with a aqua c-remora HOB.

 

for rock i would really do with dry rock its cheaper and you make sure that you dont have any crazy mantis shrimp or anything in it. it turns out to be the same as regular live rock in the end, just seed it with a couple pieces from well established systems.

[toastiireefs]

for a skimmer id go with a aqua c-remora HOB.

 

for rock i would really do with dry rock its cheaper and you make sure that you dont have any crazy mantis shrimp or anything in it. it turns out to be the same as regular live rock in the end, just seed it with a couple pieces from well established systems.

 

 

 

i really want live rock- but im getting uncured and will do a whole long cycle deal

one thing that facinates me is what would happen if you got very very live live rock and put it in your tank and left it there- what kinda cool neat creatures would be there-- LR is one thing that i left room for in my budget

 

 

thanks for the skimmer recomendation i have gotten a lot for that skimmer

 

if i do a sump should i get a in sump skimmer instead.?

 

btw my budget is roughly 1500$ meaning not over 1500 but under.

[toastiireefs]

any comments

 

what types of inverts should i look for a reef like tank- not including corals etc

i want to have the lighting for the option of having more than just mushrooms and zoas

 

i think

 

1 cleaner shrimp

# some variety of snails

i think pep shrimp

 

what else?

[YBeNormal]

Check out http://tampabaysaltwater.com. The LR is aquacultured so it is environmentally friendly. The LR remains in water from harvest until you pick it up at the airport and comes loaded with critters--both good and bad--but all are fascinating to watch. Here is a slide show with some of the things you might find on the LR.

[lanman]

i really want live rock- but im getting uncured and will do a whole long cycle deal

one thing that facinates me is what would happen if you got very very live live rock and put it in your tank and left it there- what kinda cool neat creatures would be there-- LR is one thing that i left room for in my budget

 

 

thanks for the skimmer recomendation i have gotten a lot for that skimmer

 

if i do a sump should i get a in sump skimmer instead.?

 

btw my budget is roughly 1500$ meaning not over 1500 but under.

 

Problem with hoping for lots of cool creatures on your live rock. If you are going to go through a whole cycle, with dead sponges and everything - most of those creatures will die. Only way around that is to have a system already functioning, and then add some very fresh live rock. My last live rock purchase from BRK included a sponge hidden away in a crevice, and a coral that is growing nicely - still don't know what it is, or what color it might eventually be, but right now it's brown, and growing at a good rate. A shame it ended up in a really low spot away from the bright lights - but once it grows out enough, I'll remedy that by cutting off a piece.

 

I still suggest saving money by purchasing some/most/all of your rock from a WAMAS member. You can probably get it for about $3.50/pound; sometimes less. Or purchase 30 pounds from someone, and then pick up another 20 after you've cycled, finding some fresh rock that might have some critters.

 

bob

[bigJPDC]

Uncured rock makes me nervous - I've gotten all of mine from here - http://www.theaquariumonline.com, last time it worked out to $5/lb shipped to NOVA. You can send them email requesting the size of pieces you'd like - they have been great about working with me.

 

HTH,

jp

[Connor]

snails are a great idea but i suggest trying to keep them to a minimum because if ur doing a reef tank they sometimes knock over frags

[treesprite]

tht miight be my determining factor.. lights

 

That's the big factor for sure if it's a money issue.

 

Uncured rock makes me nervous

Me too.

[lanman]

By the way... what was the dream that got away??

 

bob

[toastiireefs]

thanks guys for all the suggestions i just got back from LA-

 

and i went to a beach there where there was lots of tide pools with thousands of some sort of crab- hundreds of flower anenomes- some tube worms- and minow like fish

 

i was goregous and i went to tons of aquariums- well as many as i could go to

 

 

my dream was the 75- but my true dream that i always have had was to have like my house made of an aquarium- haha like at those restaurants- yea well i'll prolly never do that but i sure will have a fish room when im older!

 

why does uncured make you nervous?

and i understand it will go through the whole cycle

and thats a good idea to buy a bunch of rock for cycle and then more good rock later

 

oh so what other types of invertabres

[davelin315]

OK, so here's my take on types of rock.

 

With dry rock, it will take years and years for the diversity of life to appear and your cycle will take minimum of a month, more likely 6-8 weeks as you'll need to seed the rock with bacteria which will take quite a bit of time to develop (it can actually be seeded just from the air as the bacteria is everywhere in very small amounts). This could take even longer than that as well. Also, the diversity of life that you'll have will be limited to what you specifically introduce. For example, if you want tube worms, they won't be there unless you introduce them. That's not to say that it will be difficult to find some and bring them in, it's just more labor intensive getting a scoop of sand here a piece of rubble there. My feeling is that dry rock is really for an established tank or a tank that is using a combination of dry and live.

 

For live rock, the only difference between cured and uncured is that cured live rock has been given the chance to go through a mini-cycle where all of the things that died on it have decayed and decomposed and basically whatever is left is what you will have in your system. That said, if you have it shipped, it'll basically be uncured live rock again as you'll have die off once again. It won't be as bad as it would have been if it hadn't been cured, but you will lose some life. Curing also won't necessarily banish all of the little critters that you might see. Depending on how these are cured, nuisance creatures such as gorilla crabs, whelks, cirullean isopods (sp?), aiptasia, mantis shrimp, etc. may still be present. Some companies take rock and put it on racks which are sprayed with saltwater so that all of the critters crawl off of them into trays where they are sorted and collected or rejected. This will give you rock that has very few if any nuisance critters. Other places simply cure in large vats and that will leave critters in there.

 

As mentioned, Tampa Bay Saltwater sends rock at a premium price with water, which therefore jacks up the shipping significantly. If you're looking to buy, Mogurnda was planning a group buy of rock from there to reduce shipping costs and listed some pros and cons.

 

So, the real question here is how long are you willing to wait?

 

By the way, Connor, the only snail that will really cause problems in a reef with knocking frags and things over is a turbo snail. The others are fairly small and don't cause many problems. The desirable species for a smaller environment included astrea, margarita, nassarius, cerith, and nerite snails. All of these will help to maintain a clean tank and none really get so large as to cause problems with frags. If you want some crabs, just know that they may eat your snails (there are some varieties which supposedly don't, but if they need a shell, they might decide that escargot is tasty!). I would also suggest maybe a sand sifting cucumber once your tank is stable (they will foul your tank if they die in an unstable environment) and perhaps a serpent star (not the green). This will help to maintain your sandbed and keep it turned over.

 

With your budget you should be able to afford quite a bit. I would start with your tank, buy your light and whatever filtration you are going to have, then buy some rock from different sources. It's always good to diversify so buy some from people in the club, buy some from stores, and if you really want some uncured, buy a small chunk of it from somewhere to diversify your life. Wait a month or so for things to settle out, test your water, and then start adding the clean up crew. Once that's done, you can start adding other things. You will most likely undergo a cyano and a diatom bloom but these will subside as your system matures and should be less with cured rock which is why I suggest minimizing the amount of uncured.

 

Good luck with the tank!

[toastiireefs]

wow thank you sooo much! that was very informative--- since the begining of my new tank idea when it started as a 20gl mixed goby tank i wanted to make the process very slow

 

i am willing to wait how ever long- i dont care if it takes 2 months to cycle but i want the diversity of life- so i think longer the cycle more stable? or is that bull?

 

my origional rock plan was to buy 40# from Fosters and them 30 from premium aquatics.. but now this is a 40gl tank so i might buy 10-20# uncured from premium aquatics (i have heard good things from them) and the 40# (99.99$!) from fosters

 

 

so yea

i also have a lighting question which im sure i have asked- what kinds of corals can do well in HO t-5 lighting

[davelin315]

i am willing to wait how ever long- i dont care if it takes 2 months to cycle but i want the diversity of life- so i think longer the cycle more stable? or is that bull?

 

That's a yes and no answer. There are some that say that waiting a year before putting anything into your system will really allow it to mature, but most say that you can put things in slowly when your cycle has completed the first time. Each phase of the nitrogen cycle begins with bacteria growing until its numbers are sufficient to eliminate any waste in the water so waiting a long time for a cycle to complete will pay off as you first convert the ammonia into nitrite, then into nitrate, then the nitrate is finally broken down anaerobically and dissipated from the system. That said, with any uncured rock you will want to wait until your cycle is done. I kind of think that if you wait too long then you're really not introducing any waste into the system and the bacteria will go dormant so I typically start with fully cured rock and then go from there.

[lanman]

wow thank you sooo much! that was very informative--- since the begining of my new tank idea when it started as a 20gl mixed goby tank i wanted to make the process very slow

 

i am willing to wait how ever long- i dont care if it takes 2 months to cycle but i want the diversity of life- so i think longer the cycle more stable? or is that bull?

 

my origional rock plan was to buy 40# from Fosters and them 30 from premium aquatics.. but now this is a 40gl tank so i might buy 10-20# uncured from premium aquatics (i have heard good things from them) and the 40# (99.99$!) from fosters

so yea

i also have a lighting question which im sure i have asked- what kinds of corals can do well in HO t-5 lighting

Sarah - I don't really think you NEED a cycle in order to get a stable tank. i.e. - if you purchase good, cured rock locally, and transport it carefully, and already have a sand bed and water prepared (with at least a cup or two of 'experienced' sand) - you will be very happy. For example - I have a rock in my sump with some mushrooms on it. They are NOT my favorite mushrooms (they get too big and sting things) - but they are surviving on the light that sneaks in the back of my stand from the frag tank. That rock also has an assortment of little tube worms on it, and who knows what else might be growing there. So if you get rock from someone else's tank locally - get some cured from BRK, or other LFS, and your tank doesn't go through a major cycle - you will be weeks ahead of the game. Unless you feel the need to suffer through a cycle like I did with my first tank. And the only reason I did was because I didn't know any better. It was an educational experience; I tested my water every day - watched all of the numbers rise and fall, and the water finally clear, and the nitrates finally drop low enough to put a $5 frag from BRK in there (Kenya tree with some yellow polyps on the little rock) after a very impatient 6 weeks. But I was able to enjoy the 2nd tank (and it's replacement) more, and sooner, by using all cured rock and some experienced sand. I hadn't planned on it - but I had a couple of rocks in there from a tank breakdown 1 week after I set up the 2nd tank. Monti digi's, mushrooms, zoa's, and an assortment of little critters on those rocks - and all have survived and grown. No chance with a tank going through a real cycle.

 

Just my $0.02.

 

bob

[toastiireefs]

hmmmm

well i think im still going to buy uncured- for money reasons but i think im actually hmmm wait maybe not--

haha

sorry

i think im gonna go with the fosters and PA idea still though i understand kinda what you are saying- im just the type of person who likes to do things the hard way (hard as in time not difficulty level) its more satisfying when you get it done-

 

 

im fine with doing the whole cycle thing and not being able to see through the tank and having the whole house smell like sh*t for two weeks- my first tank was in my room had my window open the entire time- augh awful!

 

anyways idk how good fosters rock is but i hear WONDERFUL things from PA

[lanman]

hmmmm

well i think im still going to buy uncured- for money reasons but i think im actually hmmm wait maybe not--

haha

sorry

i think im gonna go with the fosters and PA idea still though i understand kinda what you are saying- im just the type of person who likes to do things the hard way (hard as in time not difficulty level) its more satisfying when you get it done-

im fine with doing the whole cycle thing and not being able to see through the tank and having the whole house smell like sh*t for two weeks- my first tank was in my room had my window open the entire time- augh awful!

 

anyways idk how good fosters rock is but i hear WONDERFUL things from PA

Well - I described my house as smelling like the back bay of Boston Harbor... another advantage, though - is getting the rock for a low price. Quite often $3/pound in the for sale forum.

 

Have fun and take pictures!

 

bob

[steveoutlaw]

Sara - I think that you should PM Dave Schlur(?), screenname dschflier. He has got a bunch of good, cured live rock and he sells it pretty cheap. He might even cut you a deal if you're buying for your whole tank. This is good for 2 reasons:

 

1. You don't have to go through a major cycle.

2. YOU get to pick out the type and shapes of rock you want.

 

It's a crap shoot when you order on-line. I've heard horror stories of people getting the rock that is dried out and doesn't have much corraline algea on it.

 

Just a thought.

[toastiireefs]

thats true- i will deffinatly check it out- i feel good about this tank my mom seems more reasonable and willing to let me

 

foster has it for 2.5/lb but idk how its gonna come

PA has for about 3.50-4$/lb and again i hear wonders from them and make requests and such but it would be nice to buy from someone local

hmm cant think of any thing else now haha

[steveoutlaw]

I just looked on the foster and smith website and I didn't see anything for less than $3 per pound. Also, if you look closely you will see that the rock arrives uncured. That means you are going to have to wait for a full cycle. If you buy it locally you can get it for the same price, pick out the shapes you want, and you'll get it fully cured. I think you'd be a lot happier doing it that way.

 

Steve

[jakaufman]

When I set up my first tank, I bought around 150#LR from someone local who actually brought it over and gave me their extra salt buckets! It wasn't crawling with stuff like if I had bought it from somewhere like TBS, but it was around $1.50/lb and had a good amount of coralline on it already.

 

My tank barely cycled with that and some LS from another local person. It had a ton of bacteria already established and only had some dieoff for the first week.

 

If I had the $ I would get some from TBS just because it really is fascinating what can come in on that rock. I feel like you could put that in and be happy watching just the rock without adding anything else!

 

-Joe