lanman February 21, 2007 Share February 21, 2007 I have seen several posts about people putting refugiums in their sumps. I see posts about Chaeto in people's refugiums. But when I look up refugiums in google, I come up with a kind of auxiliary tank set aside for shy animals, or prey animals, or pod production, etc. On the other hand, on some reef sites, I see a partition in the sump tank set aside and called a refugium, but it's actually full of chaeto or something, and used for modifying the water (reverse photosynthesis or something). What do you consider a refugium?? Under what circumstances should I have one? I am getting a new acrylic sump tank this week - would I be well advised to set up an area in it for something? How about lighting? Thanks, bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Folta February 21, 2007 Share February 21, 2007 (edited) As far as aquarium use is concerned, a refugium is a place where we keep macroalgae to use as a nutrient export. The benefit of growing this macroalgae, such as chaeto, is that it will pull nutrients out of the water more aggressively (hopefully) than nuisance algae, and thus keep the tank clear of that. The purpose of running it on a 'reverse' cycle is that when there's photosynthesis taking place in the tank, it will keep up oxygen and pH levels. Not typically as much as your more powerful lights over your display, but it will help keep them a little bit more constant. Finally, a refugium is a sort of refuge for certain critters. People often try to get pods growing in there. One neat thing about that is, as the pods multiply you can actually scoop some up and put them in your display as live fish food. The ones left in the refugium will reproduce on their own. Why would you want to get one? It's cheap, easy, helps maintain oxygen, pH and temp levels a bit if run on a reverse cycle, and helps reduce nutrient levels in your system. Talk to bemmer about refugium lights, I know she was just researching which ones are good. Hope that helped! Edited February 21, 2007 by Folta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhoch February 21, 2007 Share February 21, 2007 A refugium is a sanctuary or safe place for things to grow... Typically in a refuiguim we are growing macro algae (as Folta said) but also other small creatures can use this as a breeding ground away from predators in the main tank (worms & pods & such that are beneficial to your aquarium). Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanman February 21, 2007 Author Share February 21, 2007 A refugium is a sanctuary or safe place for things to grow... Typically in a refuiguim we are growing macro algae (as Folta said) but also other small creatures can use this as a breeding ground away from predators in the main tank (worms & pods & such that are beneficial to your aquarium). Dave Okay - sounds nice. I finally found a series of pictures that gives me a clue how to build one into my sump, I think! I'll just need a few pieces of plexiglas. This should be fun! And for lighting - I'm not growing any SPS in there - I suppose any little 'grow light' would do?? (I have a collection of those, from starting seeds indoors in the wintertime - to try to be the first in the neighborhood with various veggies; and to try to get the largest pumpkin, etc.) What keeps the critters in the refugium? Water flows in one side, water flows out the other side - why wouldn't 'pods' and stuff get swept up in the flow? More research, I guess. Thanks! bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhoch February 21, 2007 Share February 21, 2007 Those critters are very adept at hanging on. (the algae helps them as well... soemthing to hang onto... And the flow ends up not being all that fast. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rascal February 21, 2007 Share February 21, 2007 Those critters are very adept at hanging on. (the algae helps them as well... soemthing to hang onto... And the flow ends up not being all that fast. Dave Nevertheless, many will end up making it into your display, even surviving the impeller on your return pump. That's all part of the benefit. The pods help feed your fish, and their eggs and larva are food for corals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dzekunoi February 21, 2007 Share February 21, 2007 Okay - sounds nice. I finally found a series of pictures that gives me a clue how to build one into my sump, I think! I'll just need a few pieces of plexiglas. This should be fun! And for lighting - I'm not growing any SPS in there - I suppose any little 'grow light' would do?? (I have a collection of those, from starting seeds indoors in the wintertime - to try to be the first in the neighborhood with various veggies; and to try to get the largest pumpkin, etc.) What keeps the critters in the refugium? Water flows in one side, water flows out the other side - why wouldn't 'pods' and stuff get swept up in the flow? More research, I guess. Thanks! bob Actually, you want pods to get to the flow as they then get dragged to your display - fresh food served! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caribbean Jake February 21, 2007 Share February 21, 2007 few notes if you are building a refugium select a good grain of mud or sand for your substrate, one that is compatible with what you are intended to grow in the refugium. Also, sue cheato algae together with all other macro algeas you intend to grow. these type of algaes are the main breeding grounds for pods and other critters. there are some good articles on the web about refugiums.. and here is just one to get you started. http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/aquariumdiy/a/aa041400.htm good luck Jacob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanman February 21, 2007 Author Share February 21, 2007 few notes if you are building a refugium select a good grain of mud or sand for your substrate, one that is compatible with what you are intended to grow in the refugium. Also, sue cheato algae together with all other macro algeas you intend to grow. these type of algaes are the main breeding grounds for pods and other critters. there are some good articles on the web about refugiums.. and here is just one to get you started. http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/aquariumdiy/a/aa041400.htm good luck Jacob Yes, I had already found that article in my searches. Doesn't really say much about what to put in them, other than copepods, and some algae's. He suggests caulerpa, and says he cultivated some halimeda algae, whatever that is. But then I saw another article that mentioned caulerpa 'going sexual', and spreading all over the main tank. bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsarvis February 21, 2007 Share February 21, 2007 Actually, you want pods to get to the flow as they then get dragged to your display - fresh food served! Nevertheless, many will end up making it into your display, even surviving the impeller on your return pump. That's all part of the benefit. The pods help feed your fish, and their eggs and larva are food for corals. About that... the way my sump is built, the refugium (in the middle chamber) empties into the return pump chamber through a foam filter. Is that a bad thing? Will it filter out those good things from getting up into the main tank? I was thinking about taking the foam off and putting it on top of the wall between the skimmer (first of three chambers) and the refug, 'cause the flow down from the overflow chambers creates a lot of bubbles which probably carry a lot of stuff that the skimmer should be getting to over to the refug and, in fact, right past the refug to the return chamber. Anyone have thoughts on that? Should I put a wall (that's taller and doesn't go all the way to the ground) in front of the current wall b/t skimmer and refug, so that the bubbles can't go over into the next chamber? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Almon February 21, 2007 Share February 21, 2007 (edited) It is my understanding that excess nutrients go through the nitrogen cycle by breaking down to ammonia, then nitrites, then nitrates, which stay in the tank. Stop the cycle early by removing the nutrients before they breakdown. I have recently started a refugium for the sole purpose of absorbing the excess nutrients so that I can reduce the amount of water changes that I do to remove the nitrates. This refugium is a little different than most, I think. My refugium is not in the sump. My refugium is a 55g display tank. A display tank for saltwater plants (macroalgae) and, soon to be, critters. I have 110w of compact florescent lights to ensure healthy and generous growth and to support any other creature that I choose to insert there. Edited February 21, 2007 by Almon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsaavedra February 21, 2007 Share February 21, 2007 I have seen several posts about people putting refugiums in their sumps. I see posts about Chaeto in people's refugiums. But when I look up refugiums in google, I come up with a kind of auxiliary tank set aside for shy animals, or prey animals, or pod production, etc. On the other hand, on some reef sites, I see a partition in the sump tank set aside and called a refugium, but it's actually full of chaeto or something, and used for modifying the water (reverse photosynthesis or something). What do you consider a refugium?? Under what circumstances should I have one? I am getting a new acrylic sump tank this week - would I be well advised to set up an area in it for something? How about lighting? Thanks, bob Bob, If you are visual person as I am you can come by and I will be more than glad to walk you through mine that way you get a better understanding of what everyone here is talking about. Raf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanman February 21, 2007 Author Share February 21, 2007 Bob, If you are visual person as I am you can come by and I will be more than glad to walk you through mine that way you get a better understanding of what everyone here is talking about. Raf That would be great - but you're at 39 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanman February 21, 2007 Author Share February 21, 2007 (edited) Here is my 'design': I have a hang-on skimmer. Look about right?? bob Edited February 21, 2007 by lanman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rascal February 21, 2007 Share February 21, 2007 About that... the way my sump is built, the refugium (in the middle chamber) empties into the return pump chamber through a foam filter. Is that a bad thing? Will it filter out those good things from getting up into the main tank? Possibly not, because in all likelihood that foam filter is crawling with pods. I float a polyfilter pad in the return section of my sump, and I know they love that. If the pods are in the filter, some of them will most likely be falling off and making their way to your display. You may want to reconsider the use and/or placement of the foam filter for other reasons, though. Seems like it could end up a nitrate factory if not rinsed quite often. IMO mechanical filtration is best employed before the skimmer, if at all. Just my $.02 though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanman February 22, 2007 Author Share February 22, 2007 It is my understanding that excess nutrients go through the nitrogen cycle by breaking down to ammonia, then nitrites, then nitrates, which stay in the tank. Stop the cycle early by removing the nutrients before they breakdown. I have recently started a refugium for the sole purpose of absorbing the excess nutrients so that I can reduce the amount of water changes that I do to remove the nitrates. This refugium is a little different than most, I think. My refugium is not in the sump. My refugium is a 55g display tank. A display tank for saltwater plants (macroalgae) and, soon to be, critters. I have 110w of compact florescent lights to ensure healthy and generous growth and to support any other creature that I choose to insert there. Now that I like! Let's see... 45-gallon aquarium, 20-gallon sump, 30-gallon frag tank, 30-gallon refugium... I think I need a bigger skimmer! bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caribbean Jake February 22, 2007 Share February 22, 2007 no, you need a bigger tank... then you want a bigger skimmer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanman February 25, 2007 Author Share February 25, 2007 (edited) Here is my 'design': I have a hang-on skimmer. Look about right?? bob Okay - I built it! And let's see if I can figure out how to get these pictures in here. Here is a link that might work: http://public.fotki.com/lanman/refugium/refugium I think I got it! (Thanks to some help from Rebecca) New tank arrives Cutting acrylic with the radial arm saw: Cutting slots with the router: All glued up: Added sand, live rock, snails, hermits, chaeto and heater: Pump in the sump - and no major flooding... yet! Finished product (with temporary light): bob Edited February 26, 2007 by lanman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YBeNormal February 25, 2007 Share February 25, 2007 Hmmm.... I think he got it built! j/k Great job Bob! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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