Dangerously low calcium levels

[YHSublime]

Hey WAMAS,

 

I know what I need to do, but I want to run it by somebody other than myself. My paramaters got out of wack last week with my Apex being down, and I noticed some corals looking less perky. I decided to test, and here is what I ended up with:

 

Salinity: 1.030 (I've since brought it down to 1.025)

DkH: 10.3

Calcium: It's not registering. I tested 3 times, and my kit is still in date (I have used it prior with accuracy.)

(2ml tank water, 1 scoop of powder, syringe in the right position, empty 6 (down to 4), swirl for 5 seconds. Add drops until solution turns from pink to blue.

 

Magnesium: I don't have a test kit, but I'm presuming it's low based on no registered calcium. 

 

I currently dose 31ml each day for each solution, and I use ESV bIonic. The instructions say to dose in equal parts. 

 

My first step is finding out what my mag is, but in the interim, should I slowly increase my calcium? 

[cpeguero]

I’ve never used ESV, so take my advice with a grain of salt. I’d say slowly up the calcium and back off on the alk until you get your hands on a magnesium test. Though another question comes to mind- does your Apex modify dosing based on testing? If not, then I’d dig a bit to see how things got so far out of whack. Or is it that there was 0 dosing with the apex down?

 

Is there an LFS near you who could test for you?

[monstamich]

Hey Isaac,

 

I use ESV 2 part and I’ve never worried about using them in equal parts.  I tend to need more part 1 (alk) than part 2.  I believe the reasoning behind that is due to trace elements in both solutions.  Not sure what’s in what but I’ve never had any issues with not dosing equal parts.  It might be safer to just start with daily small water changes, assuming that you like the parameters of your salt mix 😉
 

Thanks,

Mike

[YHSublime]

2 hours ago, cpeguero said:

I’ve never used ESV, so take my advice with a grain of salt. I’d say slowly up the calcium and back off on the alk until you get your hands on a magnesium test. Though another question comes to mind- does your Apex modify dosing based on testing? If not, then I’d dig a bit to see how things got so far out of whack. Or is it that there was 0 dosing with the apex down?

 

Is there an LFS near you who could test for you?

 

Since I swapped tanks (a year ago almost) my alk has been a little bit higher than the lower I used to keep it at. Happy to slowly bring it back down again, I think that will help with the balancing act, tbh. I've not seen a tremendous amount of coraline growth, and my rock is a decade plus established. I don't have a Trident hooked up, just the DOS, so no modifying. Things got so far out of wack with the doser being out of commission, and I was dosing daily by hand. TBH, it could have happened prior to my Apex going out. 

 

I'm close to  Tropical Lagoon, but I have a lead on a local with both a mag test kit and some mag. 

 

1 hour ago, monstamich said:

Hey Isaac,

 

I use ESV 2 part and I’ve never worried about using them in equal parts.  I tend to need more part 1 (alk) than part 2.  I believe the reasoning behind that is due to trace elements in both solutions.  Not sure what’s in what but I’ve never had any issues with not dosing equal parts.  It might be safer to just start with daily small water changes, assuming that you like the parameters of your salt mix 😉
 

Thanks,

Mike

 

Yeah, my mantra has always been nothing good happens fast. I think I'm going to just do a water change, get my hands on a magnesium test kit, and go from there. 

[davjbeas]

I use ESV bionic 2 part. I also use the ESV salt mix. I don't have any complaints  I have a 80 gallon tank and I measure CA and Alk daily with "Salifert" test kits. Recently  I have been adding 12 ml of alkalinity and 8 to 9 ml of Calcium.

I adjust the amount I add based on the measurements.  My Alk swings swings 8.6 to 9.3 and calcium swings 450 to 460.

I don't test for magnesium although I have a bottle of magnesium.  This has worked for me. I do a 20 gallon water change once a month.

I try to keep parameters stable. I think you could add as much as the starting dose which for me was 20ml. I don't think you want to have a shift of 1.0 DKH Alk or more overnight. 

 

31 ml is a lot to add every day. How many gallons is your tank? I have a magnesium test kit you can use although I might be to far from you. I am in Reston, VA.

[YHSublime]

1 hour ago, davjbeas said:

I use ESV bionic 2 part. I also use the ESV salt mix. I don't have any complaints  I have a 80 gallon tank and I measure CA and Alk daily with "Salifert" test kits. Recently  I have been adding 12 ml of alkalinity and 8 to 9 ml of Calcium.

I adjust the amount I add based on the measurements.  My Alk swings swings 8.6 to 9.3 and calcium swings 450 to 460.

I don't test for magnesium although I have a bottle of magnesium.  This has worked for me. I do a 20 gallon water change once a month.

I try to keep parameters stable. I think you could add as much as the starting dose which for me was 20ml. I don't think you want to have a shift of 1.0 DKH Alk or more overnight. 

 

31 ml is a lot to add every day. How many gallons is your tank? I have a magnesium test kit you can use although I might be to far from you. I am in Reston, VA.

 

Thanks for the offer, Dave. You're a bit far from me, and I found a reefer in Hyattsville who had a test kit. 

 

I have been using ESV for a decade plus, I have no qualms with it, I was trying to give as much pertinent information as I could. I was actually one of your huckleberry's when you were trying to figure out your dosing and alk  

 

My total water volume is about 35 gallons, 31ml a day is actually low, considering the amount of corals I have. 

 

 

In other news, I tested my magnesium, and I'm sitting at about 1000 even. 

[YHSublime]

I got my hands on some BRS Liquid Magnesium Supplement. 

 

IIRC I remember reading you can dose all at once, is that bad practice? 

 

FWIW, I need 38oz to get from 1000 to 1400, which is nearly 5 cups. I am shy a cup or so, so I'd be adding about 3.5 cups all at once. 

[DaJMasta]

It's not good form to dose a ton, but there comes a point where it's better to shock things and get parameters in line vs. trying to be slow.  That said, 1200 or so is low but not unreasonably so, so I would probably do it in at least a couple steps over a few days.

[ParrotFish]

I use red sea chemicals and I look I their little booklets regarding how much I can change in a day. But this on BRS regarding mag

[DaJMasta]

And my experience has been just throw in 200-300 mL every couple of months when I check, while Randy Holmes Farley seems to prefer 'don't bother even measuring' in many cases.  At any rate, slow adjustment is probably always somewhat better, but may be a more conservative method of doing it.

 

If your magnesium was 700 ppm, for example, raising it to 800, 900, 1000, 1100, 1200 over the course of a week or two would be far worse than raising to >1000 and then raising to 1300-1400 in two steps, imo.

[YHSublime]

1 hour ago, DaJMasta said:

And my experience has been just throw in 200-300 mL every couple of months when I check, while Randy Holmes Farley seems to prefer 'don't bother even measuring' in many cases.  At any rate, slow adjustment is probably always somewhat better, but may be a more conservative method of doing it.

 

If your magnesium was 700 ppm, for example, raising it to 800, 900, 1000, 1100, 1200 over the course of a week or two would be far worse than raising to >1000 and then raising to 1300-1400 in two steps, imo.

thanks. I’m going to do 1 cup every 24 hours over the next four days. I have an empty compartment on my dosing container, I’ll probably just put it in that and call it a day

[YHSublime]

I'm at a bit of a loss here. Over the past 3 days, I've added 4 cups of liquid magnesium dose, which has increased my levels from 1000 to 1200, that's good (although not on par with what the dosing instructions say I should be hitting, that's fine.) Possibly it was consumed while being added? 

 

My dKH was at 9.9 this afternoon, and calcium is still not registering on my Salifert kit.

 

I wanted to ensure the testing kit was still functioning properly, so I tried it on some NSW. I got 450, which is about on par with my salt mix (IO.) 

 

My next step was to make sure the DOS was working correctly, and it appears to be. There is no precipitation happening in the sump. The recent spikes are me manually ensuring each side was dispensing properly. Both containers are also dropping equally, and it's not dripping out anywhere. 

 

Should I up my calcium supplement? I've never seen this happen before. 

 

[YHSublime]

The only thing I can think of that makes sense is that I mixed up the wrong amount of RO with my ESV solution. I get it in the 5 gallons buckets. 

[DaJMasta]

Could it be that it's overrange?  Could it be that there's some asterisk that different parameters can throw it off (I think Mg test kits usually only work well in a specific calcium range, for example.)  Definitely seems like an odd one.

 

A way to check would be to dilute your water with new saltwater and see what direction it changes.

[YHSublime]

11 minutes ago, DaJMasta said:

Could it be that it's overrange?  Could it be that there's some asterisk that different parameters can throw it off (I think Mg test kits usually only work well in a specific calcium range, for example.)  Definitely seems like an odd one.

 

A way to check would be to dilute your water with new saltwater and see what direction it changes.

possible, but writing the kit register it with the addition of the solution, just earlier, as the color would change immediately, unless it’s way high

[cpeguero]

Sounds quite strange…. You could try mixing up a new batch of ESV and try dosing that….

 

 Other ideas I have are take a sample to your LFS for a full range of tests and/or send out an ICP test. 

[YHSublime]

13 hours ago, DaJMasta said:

Could it be that it's overrange?  Could it be that there's some asterisk that different parameters can throw it off (I think Mg test kits usually only work well in a specific calcium range, for example.)  Definitely seems like an odd one.

 

A way to check would be to dilute your water with new saltwater and see what direction it changes.

 

OK, did the test again this morning, Salifert with the 2ml of tank water. No purple between 0.0 and 0.6ml. 

I continued to empty the syringe of the standard reagent 2, with no change in color. 

So I filled up the syringe again of reagent 2 to continue to add. 

I got about two drops through the second syringe, and the color changed to blue/purple. 

[BowieReefer84]

You doing water changes? What salt? You test newly mixed to see if that’s helping or hurting?

[YHSublime]

13 minutes ago, BowieReefer84 said:

You doing water changes? What salt? You test newly mixed to see if that’s helping or hurting?

yes, I’m using IO. It’s at 450, test is reading correctly on nsw. 
 

trying to determine if my calcium is too low, or too high.

[YHSublime]

15 hours ago, DaJMasta said:

Could it be that it's overrange?  Could it be that there's some asterisk that different parameters can throw it off (I think Mg test kits usually only work well in a specific calcium range, for example.)  Definitely seems like an odd one.

 

A way to check would be to dilute your water with new saltwater and see what direction it changes.

ding ding ding. I went the other way, dangerously high levels 😂

 

 maybe not dangerously high, but high!

[DaJMasta]

Weird!  While I've had my calcium run away before, I wouldn't have expected the kit to read zero.  At least high calcium isn't so detrimental and regular old water changes or waiting should do alright to fix it.

[YHSublime]

11 hours ago, DaJMasta said:

Weird!  While I've had my calcium run away before, I wouldn't have expected the kit to read zero.  At least high calcium isn't so detrimental and regular old water changes or waiting should do alright to fix it.

 

Yeah, I honestly don't think it was above 510, just turned it off for 24 hours, will water change in tandem, and see where we end up!