Two internal pumps or one external or one big internal?

[NightOwl]

Hi All,

I am hoping to get some advice on what to do with my tank. I have a 90 gal tank with a 20 gallon sump. I recently upgraded to an Aqua C EV 180 skimmer (on the way) and that will require a Mag 9.5 to function properly. My pump returning water to the tank is a Mag 9.5 connected to a SCWD. I thought about buying another Mag 9.5 for the skimmer but do not want the heating issues of having two big pumps in my sump. That would be a total of 6 pumps throughout the tank. Three maxjets in the tank on a wavemaker. The Mag 9.5 return, minijet 606 for the phonban reactor, and the addional Mag 9.5. I am now thinking about an External pump that can push up about 4' with some backpressure as the SCWD restricts the flow some or maybe a bigger internal that does not put out much heat if possible. Any suggestions on external or internal are greatly appreciated.

 

1. What brand would you recommend?

2. Will I need to do any drilling to get water into the external

pump?

3. Any other things I need to know about external pumps or should

be aware of?

 

 

Thanks,

 

Henry

[ReeferMan]

I love external pumps but drilling is required. When planning on the pump you need to take into consideration the size of your overflow. What size do you have right now? 1 inch? Some people like one huge pump to run everything but you need think alot about your plumbing. Do you have a heat prob right now? If not why worry about this right now? How long have you been in the hobby? Ever worked with PVC before?

[cbashaw]

If you are going with 1 big pump go with an external pump if you have the room for it.

 

I use a Mag 9 on my EV-180 and it's fine but I have heard the Eheim 1262 is even better. If my Mag 9 ever dies I'll switch to an Eheim they are much better pumps.

[NightOwl]

Hey Chris,

Currently I have Oceanic reef ready tank so its predrilled with a 1" drain and 3/4" return (Mega Flow). I use the drain but not the return. To return the water I have it pushed back up by the Mag 9.5 with the SCWD on it. The tank is rated for 600 GPH overflow that

Edited October 19, 2006 by NightOwl

[BeltwayBandit]

I love external pumps but drilling is required.

 

 

Not so grasshopper.. You can make an up and over pickup for an external pump. I have a PanWorld 100PX that runs my skimmer fed by an up and over pickup from my sump. It can be done, but there are some technical issues that you have to deal with and you have to have the space to do it. I'm going out of town tonight and won't be back til sunday. I'll try to remember to take some pictures and post the specs of what I've done when I get back on Sunday.

[ReeferMan]

ok so you are limited on the gph on your overflow and it would be nice to have another 1 inch drain. Any way it can be drilled for another one? I have a 75g and have 1200gph going through it ( 2inch bulkhead). I use a T4 return which they no longer make but is external. If you have basic PVC experience i say go that route looks professional and isnt as messy. I also have a genx which is kinda loud but panworlds are supposed to be pretty good.Also 78-80 is perfect so it doesnt seem like you would raise it much with another 9.5

[NightOwl]

Hi BeltwayBandit,

Thanks for offering to take and send some pics. Knowing all my opions help. Technical issues sounds interesting so i will wait to see what they are.

 

Thanks,

 

Henry

 

Chris,

If push comes to shove I can use the 3/4" hole as well like I said I do not currently use it. I have a piece of PVC in it that is above water. Under the tank I have a ball valve in the off position. PVC does look professional I just never got around to finishing it. It in the back room with many other DIY projects...lol. But the return is neat with the tubing since it was so basic. The drain is PVC but very basic both have a ball valve so I can limit or cut the water off all together from the tank. Thats also good to know that adding another pump will not change the water temp too much since I am taking the RIO 2100 out.

 

If any of you have pictures of your plumbing I would greatly appreciate it as well.

 

Thanks,

 

Henry

[BeltwayBandit]

Ok first off you have to make sure that your up and over overflow is capable of supplying the pump with enough water. Basically you have to calculate it as a siphon (don't worry I have a handy table) to make sure that you are feeding the pump more water than it can pump (positve pressure on the intake of the pump, gotta have that for a centrifugal pump.)

 

With this table you can estimate the flow in a siphon tube.

 

Pipe Size: Diameter of piping

Drop(in): The distance in inches from the water level in your sump to the intake of your pump. (In other words the change in elevation that the water will experience.

 

With these two variables you can determine the approximate flow rate in gallons per hour that your siphon will make, again the idea is that your siphon will be able to supply more water than the pump can push, thus creating a positive pressure on the intake side of the pump.

 

..........................................Flow Rate (GPH)

Pipe Size.|..Drop (in.)__2"_____4"______6"____8"_____10"

0.75".......|..................177.......216......264......300.......336

1"............|..................311.......384......474......540.......600

1.25"........|..................511.......624......762......876.......972

1.5"..........|.................701........858......1050...1212.....1350

2".............|................1237......1536.....1908...2154......2400

3".............|.................2804.....3432.....4200...4848......5400

 

 

Ok, so thats the theory behind an up and over. Now on to the nuts and bolts of how to build one. I used a combination of PVC and Tubing to make mine. PVC for the up and over part, converted to tubing, then back to PVC to attach to the pump via a union fitting. The Tubing basically gives me some flex in the apparatus and makes it a little easier to manage. (The pictures will make some sense of this.) The last thing you have to do is make sure on one of the elbows for the up and over (imagine an inverted U) you have to put a T fitting in. On the top of the T put a small riser and a screw cap. This is to make a priming port for the apparatus. Once you are all set you will use this port to fill the apparatus up. Screw on the cap and start the pump. The pump will push the water out of the apparatus, creating a vacuum that will start the siphon.

 

Thats it!

 

I'll add pictures later.

[ReeferMan]

[NightOwl]

BeltwayBandit,

Thanks for the explanation. I guess I will have to the pictures to solidify it in my mind. One question though how does that work in the event of a power outage. I want a solution that if the power goes out when it comes back on I do not have to be home to do anything. One of the reasons I moved to 90 reef ready was my 55 which had a overflow box flooded my first floor to where the water was dripping in my basement because the siphon broke. Not a pretty site. Is this solution apt to flood or burn the pump up if the power goes off and then comes back on? Both of which I experienced before :(. Oh and by the way have a safe trip.

 

Thanks,

 

Henry

[BeltwayBandit]

BeltwayBandit,

Thanks for the explanation. I guess I will have to the pictures to solidify it in my mind. One question though how does that work in the event of a power outage. I want a solution that if the power goes out when it comes back on I do not have to be home to do anything. One of the reasons I moved to 90 reef ready was my 55 which had a overflow box flooded my first floor to where the water was dripping in my basement because the siphon broke. Not a pretty site. Is this solution apt to flood or burn the pump up if the power goes off and then comes back on? Both of which I experienced before :(. Oh and by the way have a safe trip.

 

Thanks,

 

Henry

 

The pump will return to the primed state (after you fill the pipe with water and close the fill cap). Once the power restarts the pump will draw a siphon again. I have been running this setup for about 6 months. I tested it several times when I set it up and have tested it several times since and it restarts and reprimes every time. After the initial prime the only time you will have to reprime is if you pull the entire up and over setup out of the tank.

[cbashaw]

 

Hey cbashaw,

Maybe I should switch to the Eheim 1262 pump for mine when it gets here. Since you are running an Aqua C what pump are you using to return water to your tank and what size tank are you running?

 

 

Thanks,

 

Henry

 

I'm using a MAG 12 for my return pump and it's connected to a scwd. I would use the return as a drain to allow you to have more flow.

 

 

Your temp is fine I keep mine at 80 with no problems and I know a few people here who go as high up as 83

A small clip on fan over your sump should be enough to drop your temp 1 or 2 degrees if you need to.

[dhoch]

Let me state, I think 2 return pumps is better than 1....in almost everything in this hobby redundancy is a good thing...

 

Haveing had a pump fail recently while I was away... I'm glad I had 2 pumps...

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

Dave

[rioreef]

Henry,

 

I have a the same tank as you with a Mag 12 return that is split for flow to a fuge and through a SCWD. I just use the 1" drain and the 3/4" return is used as one of the two returns for the SWCD. With this setup I have to trim back the drain flow into the sump with a ball valve.

 

I have an ASM skimmer with a Sedra 3500 pump, Tunze 6060, and a Maxijet 900 going...all this and no heat issues. I recently added a 25w UV with a Pan World 100PX. Now adding this did bump the temp up to levels I don't want, so I added a fan over the sump and I can control it to hover around 80 degrees.

 

That said, I don't think you will have any heat issues that a fan over the sump couldn't handle. I you need any help I am also in Ashburn and am willing to assist if not just to see club members tank setup.

 

Chris

[Charlie97L]

Not so grasshopper.. You can make an up and over pickup for an external pump. I have a PanWorld 100PX that runs my skimmer fed by an up and over pickup from my sump. It can be done, but there are some technical issues that you have to deal with and you have to have the space to do it. I'm going out of town tonight and won't be back til sunday. I'll try to remember to take some pictures and post the specs of what I've done when I get back on Sunday.

 

this is a very interesting idea... i'd like to see some pics.

[NightOwl]

Thanks all,

Sounds like a Mag 12 might be all I need only a few more watts than a Mag 9 with the one SCWD setup. Would a Mag 18 be to much if I plan on running two SCWD's? Later I can upgrade to an Ocean's Motions set up. With the flow that may be passing through the SCWDs I may be able to remove another maxi jet from the tank in the time being. I was worried about the temp but seems I will be fine. BeltwayBandit still post those pics ,I'm curious to see what that looks like. Rioreef I will more than likely take you up on the offer with helping plumb this thing. I think I might order the pump tonight or this weekend. My skimmer came today and it is looking all sad with no work to do . Looking forward to seeing pics of eveyones plumbing as well.

 

Thanks,

 

Henry

 

Hey phisigs79,

On your plumbing what's the part that just stops at the top? Also are thesea swirls somehow connected to the mainline that I see or is it hidden behind the bigger pipe?

 

THanks,

 

Henry