Lee Stearns

I guess after a bit more seaching on RC that most folks are just using some form of PVC structural support- I had thought to make some kind of shelving support for large LR pieces- more opening, more stable, and a bit more thought to my aquascape--- But mainly stable to keep SPS from my ham fisted attmepts at getting at things--- I can live with the fast growing digitatas geting broken up as a learning curve lesson, but I have some nice acros now that I do not want to see broken up in the future.- They grow pretty slowly...

OK JC, Normally you mix the salt water together for 24 hours in a bucket with a heater to add it to the tank. But new tank it will work this way just take a bit longer- will take time to get fullly mixed. Do not stir it up now as you have sand in the tank- The system will take a couple of days and you will then add a bit of live rock and or some live sand from one of us to seed the bacteria. The bacteria will form a coating that sticks to the sand particles and settles them out. many put a piece of raw shrimp in the tank to feed the bacteria cycle. Watch wait and have fun - the process is much much slower than fresh water- which you have lots of experience with. Lee

JC, You can do just fine with the system you propose- There are just limits to what you can keep depending on water stability and lighting. That is it. Simple end of story. mixed reef keeping can be as simple as you want it to be. Nano cubes which are about 12 gallons are self contained with the filter in the back and a pump- the surface skims over the top into the filterarea. Several of us have these at our offices. They typically have 50/50 PC lights which allow for nearly all soft corals. No refuge or sump or even a skimmer- I am limited to about two small fish one a fire fish for color and a golden watchman goby with a pistol shrimp. 1 blue leg, 2 red leg hermits, 3 astrella snails, 2 bunble bee snails, 2 nasarrias, 2 ceriths and a mythryz crab and a little long feather calurpa that I trim back occasionally. There is great coraline on everthing. Maybe 10 lbs of live rock. In the tank coral wise I have: Capanella, 4 different zoantids, 3 types of mushrooms, 2 types of ricordia, 2 types of Green star polys, 1 anthelia, finger leather, cabbage leather, and yellow colony polyp. So you see in 12 gallons you can put a lot of variety if you pick and choose what will work. Very simple very low maintenance. I have the lights on timers, the heater is in the back filtration section and it has run regularly for 18 months going two and three day weekends without any food. I feed selcon soaked frozen mysis shrimp some golden pearls and stir the 1-2 inch sand bed a bit occasionally. Use the magnetic glass cleaner every other day- change out a gollon of water once a week or so from my home system- and that is about it. Your 50 gallon with canaster filter and hob skimmer will do fine with T-5 lighting. Some live rock will be key to not totally relying on the canister filter- esp when you break it down to clean or change pads, carbon or other material in it. There are many many ways to skin the cat of a reef system. You need to be aware of the limitations of what your system can sucessfully handle bio load wise. All the corals I have listed above will do fine in your system that you have described with out a refuge or sump. stirring the tanks water suface or allowing some skimming from it keep a film from forming is critical in the oxygen your tank requires. You do not have to make reef keeping into a large tank or make it difficult unless you choose tank occupants that will not survive with out constant upkeep or attention to thier more exacting water stability parameters. There are lots of absolutely georgeous smalll fish that do very well in the size tank you have. there are lots of corals of which many of us would give you when you have your system up and cycled. A lot of the pleasure of this hobby for me is learning its limitations learning to balance a mixed reef for minimal maintenace/ corrections or input, and sharing. Regards, Lee

Ok-- I was worried you had somehow fallen to the dark side-- into the bare bottom glass tank route- You still have a fuge that has a sand bed, and even 1/2 inch play sand is some critter territory with your live rock and rubble touching it. Keep us posted how this works out for you. Regards, Lee

Jason- Maxijets are powerheads from a specific company and fairly inexpensive- They seem to be pretty bullet proof and do not mind being turned on and off which is how mine were hooked up on a wave maker power strip that you saw at my house- RIOs have a bad rep from many sources of burning up and failing pretty spectacularly. Flow for a tank is usually measured in number of times the tank's volume is turned over- With out a sump this may not be as valid. LPS and other corals just need water column movement. One hears 10 times the tanks volume on the low side to 25 times the tanks volume on the high side or even more. Using this standard a 50 gallon tank would need a minimum flow of 500 gallons per hour which I think your fluvial and two power heads probably exceeds. Regards, Lee

I have heard that MAG 5s make a bit more noise and wear worse than any of the other MAG pumps- I have a MAG 7 and 12 and they run very quiet.

This is a difficult subject with lots of folks on many sides of this fence- DSB--- what is it? what is its functions? The standard answer is an anerobic place for the Nitrates to break down to N2 gas- which you can see being formed in bubbles in even my own 2-3 inch bed. Is a DSB 3-5 inches or greater than 6 inches? what do the folks who like the sand look and the biodiversity call their 1-3 inch sand beds. Any difference? I choose the two to three inch sand bed after doing a lot of reading, and on line and at RC. My view is the sand bed acts as a sponge- It makes up for small mistakes in overfeeding,absorbs some phosphates, releases some buffer and some calcium to the water- does some bio filtration- makes reefkeeping easier. I would say that as a sponge they make get filled to capacity and then begin leaching back some of the phosphates it absorbed, which is why sometimes algea begins to grow on the sand and rocks. This is not your only cause, most of the time it is additional Nitrates that agea need to feed. I think a partial input of new sand to the tank each year while sharing a cup full at a time overt the year with as many who would like the biodiverity that your tank may have is a great thing and replinishes the sponge/buffering capacity. I do belive it is somewhat like the hot topic on cooking rocks where folks are trying to leach out the phosphates and other stuff in thieir rock and then reusing them- I believe that is kind of crazy and can be accomplished with better flow in the tank and the liberal use of a turkey baster in the holes on your rock- I never ceases to amaze me at how much sand and ditrius comes form the pores in my rocks when I flush them with a turkey baster. There is obviously some kind of biological reaction going on in there and flow is the key to keeping it going. Everyone has different views- Most would say flow is good- and lighting is critical to many corals growth- but everything else is pretty much up for discussion. We feed our tanks with calcium and food- coral and coraline growth can take care of balancing the calcium input, but fish and coral growth can not take care of all the ultimate nutrient export over time. I know the poop changes to smaller and smaller ditrius but at some point something has to take it out of the tank- either plant, mechanical filters, fractionization through a skimmer, charcoal changes- or settled into the sand bed where it is trapped. Along comes my change out a bit of your sand bed yearly theory to recharge the sponge characteristics. I have from time to time had one of my maxi jets loose it suction cup grip and start making a sand storm in the watercolumn- The tank is hazy for a day until I can get the pump back in place and the wtaer column eventualy cleared. I think these events are actualy beneficial- but have no observable data that I can correllate to these events such as more open polyps or increased growth, but then my tank is less than 18 months running and I have always had pretty good growth going on. I am not ready to give up the sand or biodiversity yet. Chris for info puposes how deep was your DSB? How long had you been running with it? Corals feed on bacteria too- maybe a correlation in the perking up of your corals and the removing of the Sand bed was the stirring up of bacteria in the water column? Are you bare bottom tank now? Maybe the flow has increased with your focused attention to keep the glass bottom clean and is feeding the corals as well-

Mike, I can not beleive all that aptasia on the rock in left side of your tank is gone- Great news- Beautiful fish, and has some great aptasia killing qualities to boot- My experience with Majano is that joe's juice will not kill them the first time- They need to be severly wounded and then joe's juice will finish them off- I never had any luck with vinegar injected in them- though it works well on the aptasia, sometimes taking two injections though over a couple of days. Try an experiment fo rus if you will- Wound the majano with a sharp object and see if your copperband will finnish it off- It would be neat to use no chemicals. Thanks, Lee

OK I do not want to be known as the Purigen rep- but for cases like yours where you have a sudden event- and some temporary overcrowded condition - I would recommend a synthetic filter media like Purigen- It absorbs amonia, nitrites and nitrates. It darkens considerably as it absorbs. It can be rechaged by placing in bleach, rinsed, dried and used for up to about a dozen times. It whitens back up when bleached. I have used amquel in growing rotifers but am not sure I would use int in a permanent tank- I always wondered... OK you bind Amonia into some chemical form... but then how do you get that new binded chemical out of the system. In PHyto growth and feeding rotifers you strain the rotifers out of the water before feeding them to the tank so you are not getting much if any of the binded amonia, or amquel into your system.

steve, Thanks! That was what I was looking for- I had seen a couple of things on RC but when I went to do some research I couldn't find them. Some type of rack that holds up the reef rocks and yet is invisible. What materials were they using? If you get the link it would be much appreciated- Anyone else use some form of rack to stack rocks?

Some folks in WAMAS use Purigen- not sure how many or what percent- not all stores have it-- Wally's World and most onlne retailers have it. Like I said because you do not have a fuge for nutrient export- and any macro you put in the tank will get eaten pretty quickly- Purigen in the filter area would absorb amonia, nitrites and nitrates. A small 100 mg self-contained nylon bag is about 7-10 bucks and can be rechared about a dozen times whenever it darkens appreciably. It would just take some of the pressure off the overcrowded system until you get homes for some of your stock.

I am searching for info on how folks support their rockwork- What structure materials they use to keep it together and in place. I want some flexibility to be able to get at 4 maxijets in the back of the tank pretty much behind the sturcture. So I have never dilled holes, put in plastic tie ties, glued, or done anything that would be considered permanent in my rockwork stacking- of course those were the days of "I want a soft coral only tank and do not want to get bitten by the SPS bug...." Ok I now have a few SPS and LPS-- They are moved occasionally by a mythrix crab down onto a torch coral of elsewhere and get stung almost wiping out the colony. I know about plumbers putty and have used it a bit more to secure some colonies- But as they grow I want flexibility to give them space, besides many of them encrust in time and that is where they are going to stay. Last week I knocked over my large arch rock that had much of my digitatas colonies that were several inches in height and starting to establish themselves firmly encrusted. Of couse they fragged themselves into many many peices. I have glued some back into place and am now willing to give up a bit of my flexibility(and some digi frags away) for setting up a more stable framework of some type to set rocks upon. Question: (you knew there was one in there some where, like the boy looking for the pony in the room full of horse manure) What type of structural support are folks using in setting up and stabilizing their rockwork?

Great post-SDE 219- do the research and I advise not climbing your way up to Metal halides- If you think you can resist the SPS bug then you might not need them- but most alternatives are not that much lesss expensive- And the colors and growth will be appreciatively better under a MH qnd Actinic cobination.

most folks will give you the macro algea- Is there a refuge area- That yellow tang grazes all day- If it is there he will eat it- you can not keep the remainder of the bag of macro algea alive very long out of the tank. I have seen two tangs clear a 180 gallon tank that was crammed with macro algea in about a month. Nothing wrong with activated charcoal in there it will take out some of the organics out of the water- another good filter is the samll packets of Purigen a syntetic filter - it will absorb nitrogen based byproducts from the water. When it darkens significantly you can just put it in clorox to recharge it. Dry it out and then put back in the fiter area- about once a month or more depending on how much nitrogen stuff you have in the water.

Most cool- You have had this going a while- like the idea of putting cheato in the back- I will have to try that in my Nano- You have made it into a labor, though simple with those volumes- your water change shedule to keep the Calcium alk and all up for those calcium loving creatures? Regards, Lee

Have to admit at this stocking level you are never going to get the nitrates down. The yellow tang will outgrow your tank- and will not allow you to put macro algea in the tank, because it will eat everything but maybe chaeto- even then it might eat that as well. With the tang gone you could put in a rather attractive long feather caurpa in the tank which would help some. The scallop clam was a goner the day you bought it- The BTA is about the only anenome that will do well in less than hallides- I take that back condi's can also do well. Some soft coral such as anthelia, xenia, and capanella could do ok and be used as a nutrient export which is what you want the Algea for. But as you indicated you were getting rid of the eel- then the nitrates will start to balance- keep doing water changes til then. let any of us know if you want some of these easier soft corals. Glad you are here asking advice. Regards, Lee

Crazy how we think- Before i read this I answered the other thread- Do not get rid of all that Southdown I will buy one off you on Saturday if JC wants to swing by there. I am anxious to see what you have done with that new 150- Would you like me to bring a piece of bright green pavona? PM me with a time slot Grav.

JC, After your vist with me Sat morning we could drop by Grav's he lives about 10 minutes away- I have wnate to see what he has done on his new tank set up- He hleped me get my tank in place. I will PM him to see his availability Sat morning. Regards, Lee

Welcome aboard JC, Feel free to PM me and I will send you my address and phone number here in Burke not far from the Reef Tank- You are welcome to drop by and see my tanks in action - I have three and they are all run very differently which shows there are more than one way to have a beautiful tank in this hobby. Just a few minutes in person can cover a lot of ground. Regards, Lee Stearns

Good to know about whatthe manufactors position is- Just would add that I am having the same issue of fish being fond of it. I occasionally use several different dry food and my tangs who absolutely chase down any morsel that hits the tank are not very fond of this food-- sorry just reporting what my fishes reactions to these small pellets. I do feed some other small pellets that are about the same size, so pellets are not the issue. Bangai and six line actually spit it out.

You can lower your salinity just a bit and the water will have a higher oxygen content- Oxone will also bring oxygen up and get rid of the smell some - a powerhead in the sump with the little air intake hose attached will also help areate the water a bit more- I would not recommend using any other chemicals on the tank. "Nothing good happens fast" is an old reefers moto. Small water changes each evening might be in order esp if you have any of your old salt left. Watch amonia in this situation as it is the most toxic thing in the tank, and would call for more water changes if it is registering much above zero. If you drip kalk keep doing it to both maintain PH and it acts as a bit of a purifyer latching onto heavy metals and other nasties. Good luck- keep us posted

Chip, Thanks for the great tank tour- Quite amazing mature tank, that one seldom gets to see such large mature colonies. And of course the behind the scenes set up is what everyone wants to see. Great amount of adaption, innovation, updating, and tank repairs. I will get you a peice of green pavona to offset that brown pavona when you drop by my tanks at some point- Thanks again for opening your home. Regards, Lee

If Howard is going out that direction I would be happy to car pool and bring some frags to you - I too would like to see your set up. Tank showing with the price of admission a couple of softy frags for the school? Regards, Lee

Mike, Hope it likes aptasia- They are great looking fish- glad to see that they would feed it for you. BTW awesome flow system you have on that tank- not a dead spot anywhere- you should end up with some great longterm growth on your frags- Regards, Lee

would bet on micro stars- very common and very good additions as cleaners. They will multipy in the reef tank. The reddish color throws a kink in the positive ID- but you can see it better than the picture, and the micro stars that I have see all look like the picture next to the dime.