Jason's 55 gallon =D

[jason the filter freak]

This is what I'd like to do for my tank :

 

Dual Over Flows, 21 Inch 4 sides external over flows, with one stand pipe in each, as well as one back up straight drain, 1 inch bulk heads. The tank under system, 20 long gallon and 2 x 5.5 gallon

a. Why 21 inches? I figure if it's the full lenght of the height of the tank it can lend support like a back bone to the tank.

b. Why 4 sided? (borrowed this idea from some one else in the club.. can you guess) Add strenght to the tank and the overflow itself.

c. Why three tanks? The 20 long will be my skimmer, return pump, accesory, supplement adding area, anti bubble chamber tank, one 5.5 gallon will be plumed into the 20 long as a refugium/BSD, the other will be an independant tank used to hold auto top off water.

 

My Questions:

a. Who can help me?

b. Can you glue plexi glass to glass, or do I have to make the overflows out of glass?

c. What other Ideas do you all have?

 

Disclaimer:

1. I have now had a total of 8 hours exp with 3-D rendering, before that just MS paint, so cut me some slack with the quality.

2. Aside from the light fixture, which I don't have... Everthing is drawn to a pretty close tolerance of scale. I have done the measurements and the tanks will fit under there.

3. I'm not worried about the tank sitting flush to the wall.

4. No plumming or extra equipment is shown, aside from the overflow boxes and bulk heads (drain slots not shown)

5. It's 4:30 am, this has not been spell or grammar checked.

 

AS ALWAYS LOOKING FOR CONSTRUCTIVE CRITISMS, let fly guys

 

Front view looking straight at it

Front

Front

Back, note over flow boxes

[davelin315]

Hey Jason, nice drawings! What program did you use (and if it's Google Sketchpad, how did you upload the pictures?)?

 

I have a couple of comments for you on your design. The first is that you definitely should use glass if it's a glass tank. Acrylic doesn't bond to glass with silicone very well as compared to glass. I have heard debates about why that got pretty nasty dealing with how glass and silicone, being made of the same basic molecules, will actually fuse together (I don't really buy this argument as glass is inert and silicone doesn't melt glass as far as I know) or that they simply hold together better. Bottom line is that they will hold together better over time but that doesn't mean that you can't use acrylic. Glass, however, will have a stronger bond than acrylic overflows.

 

Along those same lines, I'm not sure that you'll necessarily get a stronger overflow if it's higher. I think that if it's resting on the stand and the holes are drilled in the stand to allow the bottom panes to rest on the glass you might have a more supported overflow, but I'm not sure (and I'm definitely not a structural engineer) that you'll give the "backbone" that you're thinking of by adding a 4th pane. I'm also thinking that the less height you have the less splashing you'll have, and hence, the quieter your system will be. If you have standpipes in each it'll decrease the "gurgle" but you'll still have the splashing associated with any overflow. In order to remove this splashing you'll have to raise the level of the standpipe but then you'll run into problems of increased pressure on the overflow itself.

 

Last, for the sumps, you might want to simply go with one larger tank that is divided up using baffles and then a smaller separate tank that is higher up for the top off (or even simply a jug or something). The reason for this is that you'll have a difficult time plumbing these things together. Your rendering shows them right next to each other so there's really no room for a bulkhead and a connection and if you're trying to simplify things overall by designing a better automated system, you'll introduce problems by using overflows or siphon tubes - if that's how you're planning on exchanging water between the refugium and the sump, that is.

 

Good luck with your project, it looks pretty cool with how you're planning it. I would definitely beg and plead with dandy2000 to help. His bowfront is one of the coolest projects I have seen as far as overall plan and execution in working with glass.

 

Oh yeah, you need to get some sleep...

 

P.S. A powder blue and a yellow in a 55 is a bad idea, and that butterfly will eat your corals...

[gsedlack]

I like the general logic that if you want a 48" tank then go with a 90gal rather than a 55. Divide the 55 into a sump and refugium.

[jason the filter freak]

1. Hey Jason, nice drawings! What program did you use (and if it's Google Sketchpad, how did you upload the pictures?)?

 

2. I have heard debates about why that got pretty nasty dealing with how glass and silicone, being made of the same basic molecules, will actually fuse together (I don't really buy this argument as glass is inert and silicone doesn't melt glass as far as I know) or that they simply hold together better.

 

3. Along those same lines, I'm not sure that you'll necessarily get a stronger overflow if it's higher. I think that if it's resting on the stand and the holes are drilled in the stand to allow the bottom panes to rest on the glass you might have a more supported overflow, but I'm not sure (and I'm definitely not a structural engineer) that you'll give the "backbone" that you're thinking of by adding a 4th pane. I'm also thinking that the less height you have the less splashing you'll have, and hence, the quieter your system will be. If you have standpipes in each it'll decrease the "gurgle" but you'll still have the splashing associated with any overflow. In order to remove this splashing you'll have to raise the level of the standpipe but then you'll run into problems of increased pressure on the overflow itself.

 

4. Last, for the sumps, you might want to simply go with one larger tank that is divided up using baffles and then a smaller separate tank that is higher up for the top off (or even simply a jug or something). The reason for this is that you'll have a difficult time plumbing these things together.

 

5. Your rendering shows them right next to each other so there's really no room for a bulkhead and a connection and if you're trying to simplify things overall by designing a better automated system, you'll introduce problems by using overflows or siphon tubes - if that's how you're planning on exchanging water between the refugium and the sump, that is.

 

6. I would definitely beg and plead with dandy2000 to help. His bowfront is one of the coolest projects I have seen as far as overall plan and execution in working with glass.

 

 

7. P.S. A powder blue and a yellow in a 55 is a bad idea, and that butterfly will eat your corals...

 

 

 

8. I like the general logic that if you want a 48" tank then go with a 90gal rather than a 55. Divide the 55 into a sump and refugium.

 

 

 

 

Ok answering the questions/comments in order of how I've numbered them.

 

1. Rendering program is, cinima 4D XL

 

2. Glass it is then for the overflow, as for glass fusing to it's self I suppose thats logical if you had thousands of years. If I'm not terribly wrong a payed attention in my psysics class, glass is in fact not a soild, but rather a liquid. So along those lines if you pressed two pices togheter and held them together and held them there for and extrodanairly long time with a great amout of preassure, they'd fuse. Tell em caulk is a better solution any day .

 

4. The stand is already a fixed size, and I'm not about to create another one, so along those lines I'll just make the over flows shorter.

 

5. Unfoourtantely these three tanks are all I have on hand, and the size under the stand can't be altered. So maybe I'll go with a baffeled section in the 20 L and a 5.5 for to off. Use the remainig space for a fluval, and a kalk reactor. My olny other alternative is a 40 (long) 48L x 13W x 17H, which. I have never seen ... :(

 

6. CONGRATS YOU"VE GUESSED IT! You know who I modled after and would love to get help.

 

7. HAHAHAHAHA I couldn't afford them even If I wanted them . That was the olny part I didn't do from scratch, it's a stolen screen shot from one of those aquarium scren savers.

 

P.S. I was thinking on putting a top on the overflow to cut down on noise from the water, also the taller stand pipe idea is a good idea.

 

8. I always forget to address this, this tank MUST FIT IN A DORM ROOM. a 90 or 75 is out of the question, I'd love one... but can't have one. The rest of your thoughts see above please.

 

THANKS FOR ALL THE HELP SO FAR

[Guest Rileyporter]

looks good Jason. As far as the building of it goes (woodworking) I Can help.

[jason the filter freak]

9. looks good Jason. As far as the building of it goes (woodworking) I Can help.

 

9. Thanks much, the stand is already complete and finished. I need help with plumming, wireing, and glass cutting. Check my gallery to see the finished tank stand

[jason the filter freak]

Ok adressing some or your ideas, adding some of my own

 

1. I'm leaving my over flows tall, I think it's a good idea, though I'll do some more research and could turn up wrong on that account.

2. Instead of doing slots like dandy has, I'm going to use bulk heads. Here is my reasoning, with the slot you have exposed unpolished glass, using bulk heads will allow for the collar of the bulk head to lend strenght to the hole that has been cut in the glass, plus they will allow me to have better flow control (I'll explain that later, idea tanken from Raf though)

3. I added covers over the overflow boxes. 1. to reduce sound of pouring water. 2. To keep stray light out of the overflows to help cut down on algae growth.

4. I removed one 5.5 Gallon, and elevated the other. The elevated one will me for my auto top off system, the gap on the other side of the 20 long will be for my skimmer and maybe a kalk reactor.

5. In the drawing i installed marble floors , cuz it looks cooler and adds contrast , not going to do that in real life

 

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[davelin315]

You mean you're not going to remodel your dorm room? C'mon, it's the college dream (well, OK, maybe the college dream of people who went to college in the 70s - anyone want to chime in here? I'm a little too young...) to have a marble floor reflecting black lights off of a disco ball strobe combination...

 

Back to reality, why not go with larger bulkheads if you're worried about the stress on the glass? If you drill 4 holes versus 2 that are a bit larger you're probably creating more stress points as well as a very weak area in between the two holes for either overflow. I would go with one larger hole in the center or two at most. With a 55 gallon tank I doubt that you'd have any pump on it large enough to necessitate 4 holes, or even 2 for that matter (even if you are the filter freak). Also, be careful of not having your sump supported on all 4 sides of the tank. With the lower water level you don't have as much pressure on the glass but you still want to avoid any possibility of cracking the tank. A leaking sump can be absolutely disastrous as I can attest to...

[Jager]

You mean you're not going to remodel your dorm room? C'mon, it's the college dream (well, OK, maybe the college dream of people who went to college in the 70s - anyone want to chime in here? I'm a little too young...) to have a marble floor reflecting black lights off of a disco ball strobe combination...

 

Back to reality, why not go with larger bulkheads if you're worried about the stress on the glass? If you drill 4 holes versus 2 that are a bit larger you're probably creating more stress points as well as a very weak area in between the two holes for either overflow. I would go with one larger hole in the center or two at most. With a 55 gallon tank I doubt that you'd have any pump on it large enough to necessitate 4 holes, or even 2 for that matter (even if you are the filter freak). Also, be careful of not having your sump supported on all 4 sides of the tank. With the lower water level you don't have as much pressure on the glass but you still want to avoid any possibility of cracking the tank. A leaking sump can be absolutely disastrous as I can attest to...

 

 

well depending on the spacing (keep the holes 2 inches apart) it should be ok.

 

Dav never say too much, I had 47x tank turn over in my 55 gallon with current in tank at over 4000gph.

 

no the fish were not plastered to the tank walls either, but once its built jason ill try to uplaod photos of how i close looped my 55. it may give you more ideas on how to set your tank up.

[dschflier]

Something fishy is going on here. Those fish look awfully one dimensional. Just kidding. Acually I love the drawings. Where did you get that program? Is it easy to use?

[jason the filter freak]

I have no idea why I showed two bulk heads per over flow box... it was not intensional I assure you. I'm thinking of a 1.5 inch per bulk head into the over flow box, then two 1 inch bulk heads comming off the bottom of the over flow box.

[dandy7200]

OK, your first idea was good but, your second one is bad (or a waste rather). First of all what is the purpose of a overflow box other than to get water from tank to sump? Surface skimming. If you don't want to slot the tank there is absolutely no reason why you would need a external box. All you would be doing is creating a pipe, which can easily be replaced with.....a pipe . Nothing wrong with not doing the external and just putting bulkheads in and then a durso out the back, in fact it is very common. On a 55 I don't think I would waste my valuable space with a Coast to Coast or Calfo Overflow but, do some research on those as it is another option.

If you do go with the external overflow, let me critique your plans a little. 21" high: Do you really want to stick your arm down in a overflow that far? It's going to be heavy and akward, it doesn't need to sit on the stand the silicone will hold it fine. I would break my tank before I was able to pry mine off if I tried. Backbone, well that is a good idea and it would add a support to keep the back panel from bowing, I like that idea alot, I would run the back support to the stand and only let the overflow hang about 12" at the most.

One overflow a little larger is better than two: Much cheaper, less cutting.

The split sump thing I don't understand. Ok well I understand why but the flow doesn't make sence, maybe I'm just reading it wrong. I'll go back and read it again.

The absolute first thing you need to figure out though is it the back glass is tempered, because if it is you will have a much bigger overflow than you need :wink: .

 

Oh yeah, scrap the sound proof cap and use a restricted overflow with a gate valve and a emergency drain if noise is a problem....DEAD SILENT! Actually I have a piece of clear glass on mine just to keep the salt creep in check, algae is not a problem for me YMMV.

[jason the filter freak]

Ok back to the drawing board.... erm rendering program

[HowardofNOVA]

Dan,

Your talking about using a GATE VALVE to quite your overflows?

 

Oh yeah, scrap the sound proof cap and use a restricted overflow with a gate valve and a emergency drain if noise is a problem....DEAD SILENT!

 

Can you explain?

I'm using TWO 1 1/2" overflows in my 90g tank and get a bit of noise, I would love to quite down a notch?

[dandy7200]

 

Not the greatest pic but you can see the guts of the system.

 

The way it works is your main overflow drain has no plumbing inside the overflow box, just the bulkhead and strainer at the bottom, and outside the overflow you attach a gate valve. By closing the gate valve you are able to tune the drain so that there is only water running through the pipe and no air. No air means no noise and no bubbles. At the end of that return pipe you submerge it in water and then you essentially have a "closed system" or as close as you really can.

 

See end of return pipe submerged (right side)

 

 

 

Once you have the valve closed to the point where only water is going through, then you start to close the valve a little more. What happens is the water level inside the overflow rises up closer to your tank water level and that noise goes away too. As the drain closes more you would think that you would overflow the tank but, thats where physics kick in.....even though the drain is restricted more the head pressure of extra water in the overflow pushes water through the valve with enough force to keep it working.

 

This really works great but, to make it safe you MUST USE A EMERGENCY DRAIN! :wink: I have a drain the same size as my main drain that has a straight pipe attached inside the overflow with no elbows, strainers or anything. The top of this pipe sits just above where I want my water level inside the overflow. As weeks go by and my main drain becomes a little clogged from junk the water inside the box goes up just slightly and then starts to drain from this pipe.

 

The bottom of the emergency is above the waterline of the sump so, when it kicks in I can hear it.

Once the drain is tuned 1/8 turn adjustments are made on a once a month basis or "as needed"

[inedukated]

Jason,

 

Sounds like a fun project! Make sure you keep us informed, as well as take pictures along the way.

 

I have a 55 gall and have considered a similar project. Just haven't started it yet!

 

Quick question though,

Is it easy to drill your 55 for the overflows? I currently have an overflow box with a U-pipe. I'd like to drill the tank and construct an overflow similar to your diagram. Any suggestions? I'd hate to have to completely drain the tank, so is there a way to only drain part way, drill the tank, then hook up the overflows?

 

Thanks

-Ben

[jason the filter freak]

Jason,

 

Sounds like a fun project! Make sure you keep us informed, as well as take pictures along the way.

 

I have a 55 gall and have considered a similar project. Just haven't started it yet!

 

Quick question though,

Is it easy to drill your 55 for the overflows? I currently have an overflow box with a U-pipe. I'd like to drill the tank and construct an overflow similar to your diagram. Any suggestions? I'd hate to have to completely drain the tank, so is there a way to only drain part way, drill the tank, then hook up the overflows?

 

Thanks

-Ben

 

This is a questino that should be posed to dandy, also to avoid stress on the glass the tank should be drained all the way, if you need a place to put your tank contents get a trash can from Home Depot, then return it when your done.... no no no I don't endorse that, give it to your mums. Drilling a tank as I understand it is not all that hard, however FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, MAKE SURE IT"S NOT TEMPERED!

[jason the filter freak]

OK soooo revised plumming ideas

 

1.5 inch bulk heads for drains in upper left and upper right, I'll put a gate valves at the bottom of each line where they enter the sump.... or bad idea? on the bulk heads and or the gate valves

 

the retuns will be I suppose 1 inch pvc line to what you see going into the tank in each corner, those are 1 inch PVC capped on the bottom end, the 3 points marked in neon green on each are where I'll drill a small hole and some how attach a loc-line diffuser to each point, as you can see on the left two are directed forward and one across the back, and on the other side the oppsite, staggering the flow YEs no good idea bad? any one.... specailly you dandy *bows to superior tank fabricator*

 

 

 

And yes I will put siphon breaks and gate valves on the returns

Edited October 3, 2006 by jason the filter freak

[phisigs79]

Jason you might want to check with the company that made the tank to see if it is tempered. I never did and just because the stickers on the bottom does mean the sides arent tempered.

[jason the filter freak]

At any rate I'm just going to buy another tank, one that has a center brace, new and less scratched

[jason the filter freak]

Does anyone this this return setup is a good idea to create flow across the majority of the tank ? Is there a better way, some one mentioned a surge device, I don't know what one is, I was looking to create a back and forth wave motion if possible, if nothing else a random current.

 

well depending on the spacing (keep the holes 2 inches apart) it should be ok.

 

Dav never say too much, I had 47x tank turn over in my 55 gallon with current in tank at over 4000gph.

 

no the fish were not plastered to the tank walls either, but once its built jason ill try to uplaod photos of how i close looped my 55. it may give you more ideas on how to set your tank up.

 

I'd also like to see this asap, anlong with cost options

[dandy7200]

I wouldn't complicate the return too much. Single pipe return with locline nozzle, slung over the back. If you want flow achieve it another way, like a maxi-stream or nano-stream or CL. If you want the flow random add a sea swirl. I am actually thinking of removing my OM squirt since the sea-swirl does such a good job at mixing things up, then I can easily upgrade my CL pump if I want more flow, still keeping the "less is more" simplisity.

[jason the filter freak]

Do the sea swirls do a good enough job on stirring an entire 55 gallon tank from top to bottom?

[dandy7200]

I think if you did the 1 corner overflow w/2 bulkheads and built a small (4x3x6") overflow and siliconed it in place internally, put a seaswirl on the opposite end of the tank w/ 500gph pump yyou would have a very effective setup. Throw a pair of 500gph nanostreams in and your good to go. I have my 29 done very similar to this but, considrable less flow since it is a FOWLR (bought a 75 today to replace this setup and will more than likely set it up the same way). If you want to do the gate valve (restricted drain) on your system, plan for it now, it cost the same as to build a durso and is SO MUCH quieter.

[jason the filter freak]

What about no over flow boxes and have a 1.5 inch bulk head at each side my my diagram suggests or maybe olny 1 inch bulk heads and the a sea swirl at each end. I was thinking closer to two 5-6 returns or more practicle a 1000 gph return . I'd like to avoid power heads at almost all costs.