60g reef savvy cube restart

[turbo2oh]

I have a Reef Savvy cube I previously had up for several years (5/6) (originally from another WAMAS member). Unfortunately, in the process of a  move I lost just about everything and decided to shut it down.

I now have some time to restart it. I'm trying to make a few adjustments this time to make my life easier. Primarily more automation by implementing an auto-water change system with the Neptune DOS and possibly a auto-filling ATO reservoir. Combining that with relatively low demand corals/fish I'm hoping to keep the maintenance schedule very easy. Just mixing up saltwater occasionally, feeding, and very intermittent testing (maybe a trident in the future?).

I've had the saltwater, dry rock, and sand in the tank for about 6 months now. I had cycled it originally but just restarted the cycle since it had sat fallow for so long since the first one.

My gear:
60g Reef Savvy cube
20g sump
New Neptune Apex (replacing old one)
Neptune DOS
Reef Octopus eSsence S-130 Skimmer
Kessil 360we w/ Aquatic Life fixture with 4 ATI blue plus T5s
Kessil H80 Sump light
Sicce Syncra SDC 6.0 return pump
BRS 5-Stage RODI 75GPD
Trigger ATO 10g reservoir
2x Ehiem heaters (150w?)
Avast Marine ATO
Homemade stand
Reef Saver Dry Rock

I have a few near term goals:
- Get a fish in there! Don't want to wait several more months and have to cycle again
- Decide if I'm going to replace the flooring below my tank and in the closet where I plan to store my water. I'm in the basement but its carpeted so a spill can still be a pain.
- Compile a shopping list of everything I need to get the remote auto water change and top off set up (its about 20ft away from the tank)
- Set up plumbing and wiring for ATO and water change system in a closet

Here's the shopping list I've compiled so far:
- some LVP flooring (if I'm going to replace it) (do people put a lip or anything on these types of set up to keep spilled water in?)
- lots of color-coded RO tubing (already got a 30ft aquabus cable with the new apex)
- valves for ATO water in and water change water out (what is best here? Planning to use bathroom sink hookups)
- optical water level sensors for Apex (thinking RO top off to drive a solenoid and another to monitor sump overflow)
- neptune FMM and leak detector
- solenoid(s) for handling ATO?
- replacement media and RO membrane for RODI system (they're old)

I'm adding a few photos of the tank, the closet where I plan to store water,RODI, etc. and the bathroom where I plan to hookup the drain and RODI input (open door on far left in 3rd photo). Also my work-in-progress sketch of how I'd like to set up the remote water change. I'm planning to cut a hole to run the tubing/aquabus cable across the top of the bar behind all the bottles and behind the refrigerator to the closet next to the refrigerator.

Any helps/tips/advice as I restart this journey are appreciated!

[jimlin]

Do you think just doing regular water change is enough? Automatic water changes to me seems like adding more variables of things that can go wrong with the system. 

[turbo2oh]

@jimlin It's definitely a concern, but I know from my past tank that if I plan to do them manually I won't do them regularly. That's why I'm trying to make sure I have my bases covered for safety and system redundancy.

[jimlin]

To me, every equipment have a date when it will malfunction. Less equipment and less demanding corals would be my way to have a successful reef tank if I don't have the time to do water changes. Lights, heater, wavemakers, and battery backup are things I would invest in. 

[DaJMasta]

An elaborate setup, but I don't necessarily think it's a bad overall plan of attack.  There is some concern with overall reliability, but flow/leak detectors (I don't know how they integrate into the controller, but I assume it can handle them) and an auto-stop associated with them triggering or reading something bad would go a long way towards avoiding problems while running on its own.  I would be particularly careful to design your plumbing and reservoirs to compensate for the volume of the plumbing between the equipment room and the tank - it's going to be a few gallons in the return line, at least, though somewhat less in lower diameter pipes.  I would probably put in any solenoid type valves right above the sump for the tank rather than one the water change side, and I would make sure there's a slight downhill slope between the sump outlet and the height of the reservoir in the closet, so that when the pumps shut off, instead of getting stagnant water in the pipes, it all drains back into the appropriate reservoir.  Basically trying to plumb everything so that if you shut it off, loose power, trip a leak sensor/etc that it drains back into a proper place instead of just stopping somewhere that creates problems or is just really hard to drain later to reset.

I don't know if this was already the intention, but making it a 'semi-automatic' system is probably the safer option.  One where it handles the water moving and such still, but which relies on external input to start the process (or even, to start each stage.)  Programming an appropriate time or flow measurement for the change but advancing each step with an extra button press would prevent cascading problems if something arises in an early step, and even if the goal ultimately is fully automatic, it's probably good to program in (I assume that's how it would be done with this controller) some extra pauses for manual input so that at least the first few times through the process, you can run a step and then look at the sensor data and check the pipes/water locations to make sure everything is still on track.  Debugging can be built into the setup and then just omitted or ignored once things work, so it's good to plan an extra button input or an extra text output or something just to give some analysis options in the event of a problem.

[tpallas]

You could put an incredible in wall tank in that spot. But, could you also just put the sump in that back room?

[turbo2oh]

13 hours ago, DaJMasta said:

An elaborate setup, but I don't necessarily think it's a bad overall plan of attack.  There is some concern with overall reliability, but flow/leak detectors (I don't know how they integrate into the controller, but I assume it can handle them) and an auto-stop associated with them triggering or reading something bad would go a long way towards avoiding problems while running on its own.  I would be particularly careful to design your plumbing and reservoirs to compensate for the volume of the plumbing between the equipment room and the tank - it's going to be a few gallons in the return line, at least, though somewhat less in lower diameter pipes.  I would probably put in any solenoid type valves right above the sump for the tank rather than one the water change side, and I would make sure there's a slight downhill slope between the sump outlet and the height of the reservoir in the closet, so that when the pumps shut off, instead of getting stagnant water in the pipes, it all drains back into the appropriate reservoir.  Basically trying to plumb everything so that if you shut it off, loose power, trip a leak sensor/etc that it drains back into a proper place instead of just stopping somewhere that creates problems or is just really hard to drain later to reset.

I don't know if this was already the intention, but making it a 'semi-automatic' system is probably the safer option.  One where it handles the water moving and such still, but which relies on external input to start the process (or even, to start each stage.)  Programming an appropriate time or flow measurement for the change but advancing each step with an extra button press would prevent cascading problems if something arises in an early step, and even if the goal ultimately is fully automatic, it's probably good to program in (I assume that's how it would be done with this controller) some extra pauses for manual input so that at least the first few times through the process, you can run a step and then look at the sensor data and check the pipes/water locations to make sure everything is still on track.  Debugging can be built into the setup and then just omitted or ignored once things work, so it's good to plan an extra button input or an extra text output or something just to give some analysis options in the event of a problem.

Thanks for the detailed feedback. Yeah, my intention a push-button water change. As you stated I may migrate to a fully automated one at one point but not initially.  I'll have to read up more on using the DOS for water changes and any potential issues with water in the lines or siphon issues. Great points!

[turbo2oh]

12 hours ago, tpallas said:

You could put an incredible in wall tank in that spot. But, could you also just put the sump in that back room?

Haha, my wife suggested a larger tank to better fill the space as well. You are making me reconsider that option

 

A fully remote sump is an interesting idea but that would mean a lot more water moving through the walls for the return pump across a pretty long distance (~20ft), than just some 3/8" tubing for the neptune DOS and ATO lines.