First SW tank - fish died, zoas closed. Need help

[Nart]

Hello All,

 

I am in need of some help as I am a beginner in the SW world. I will provide as much details as possible and hopefully someone is able to help me.

 

I have a newly cycled 15 gallon tank running with 20lbs of CaribSea live sand and 20lbs of live rock. Total working volume of water: 11 gallons.

Equipment: AquaClear 70 (with AQ50 impeller, to lower flow rate down to 150gph'ish), Koralia 425 powerhead, 50W heater,  Current Satellte LEDs (white's and blues, with dimmers)

API dropper test kit.

 

Thursday

Water tests before fish on Thursday: pH 8.4, ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 5, KH 8 drops, phosphate 0, salinity 1.023, temp 78.4 F.

Things in my AQ70: sponge, Matrix bio-media, purgien, chemipure blue, phosguard, and floss

 

I purchased a purple firefish, yasha goby, and 2 small zoa frags (with about 20-30 polyps on each frag) on Thursday. BRK tested my salinity, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate and all was good as well. I forgot to ask them to test the rest of my other water parameters, but I did double check my KH and it was at 8 drops.

I floated the bag for about 45mins then proceeded to put about 1/4 cup of water in every 10-15mins for about 1 hour. Put in the purple firefish and yasha goby, and coral dipped/turkey baster blasted the zoas with Coral RX dipping solution.

 

Zoas started to slowly open up within 45mins. Yasha goby went and hid in a crevice and the purple firefish was in a corner. I did notice the purple firefish fin's were damaged, like it was nipped at by other fishes in the store.

 

Friday

Water test on Friday AM: pH 8.4, ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 5, KH 8 drops, phosphate 0, salinity 1.023, temp 78.4F

 

Zoas opened up the same when the lights were turned on. I did notice some of the polyps did not open on the red/green zoa.

Target fed in the morning: Mysis shrimp - the purple firefish ate as well as the yasha goby.

 

Left for a weekend trip Friday noon... came back on Sunday afternoon.

 

Sunday Afternoon

Found the purple firefish dead and green/blue zoas that were opened nicely were closed and only a few polyps from the red/green zoa were open. See pic of the zoa.

I quickly removed the purple firefish and searched for the yasha goby, luckily he is still alive. Began to warm up 2.5G of saltwater for a water change.

 

Water test before water change: pH 8.4, ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 5, KH 7 drops, phosphate 0, salinity 1.023, temp 78.4F

Proceeded to change out 2.5G of water.

 

A concern I had was too much water flow, about 150gph from the AQ70 and 425 GPH from the powerhead (aimed to the surface) so I had ordered a Koralia 240gph powerhead that arrived on Sunday. So I changed out the 425gph powerhead to the 240gph.

Another concern I had was my KH. BRK had tested my KH 4-5 days prior and they said it was low, in the 6-7 range. So I picked up the Reef Code B during the initial test.

I doubled tested my KH and it was 6 drops to turn green'ish yellow and 7 drops to turn it completely yellow. So I dosed 5ml of Reef Code B.

 

I tried messing with the intensity of the white/blue lights later in the evening and the zoas are still not opening up.

 

Monday Morning

I have my lights on a timer to go on @ 4:30AM I checked it at 6:30AM and my zoas are still the same as Sunday, mostly all the polyps are still closed.

 

Tested my KH and it was now at 8 drops.

 

---

Does anyone have any advice on what to do? I am not sure what caused the purple firefish to die and why my zoas are not opening up.

I have attached a full front view of my tank so you can see the placement of zoas (it is in the middle, bottom floor). The AQ70 HOB filter is all the way to the left, and the powerhead is on the right pointed to the left/surface of the tank.

I would go to BRK and ask for advice but they don't open till Wednesday. Any help would greatly be appreciated.

Thank you.
Benjamin

Edited January 16, 2017 by Nart

[Irishfist25]

I'm sure others will have more experienced questions than me, but my first question is how long was the tank running before "fully cycled". what type of water are you topping off with. A common mistake for beginners is to use salt water, which causes a spike in salinity and in a tank that small, probably wouldn't take too long. My other advice would be to really inspect your fish before buying, any signs of damage is a concern. I'm sure others will chime in also, just thought I would start it off. Good luck and keep us posted

[Nart]

The tank cycled in 10 days. It was a fishless cycle, using Fretz ammonium chloride. I continued to test the water parameters daily for a week and everything held up okay. I have a glass lid on this tank so my evaporation has been very minimal. When I do top off, I use RODI water from BRK (my LFS).

 

It was completely my fault for not closely inspecting the purple firefish. I highly doubt the fish was ill, perhaps just a bit weak and my KH dipped a little, from 8 to 7. I have no idea how much of an KH change can affect the fish. Just my thought.

[khh27]

Take the glass lid off. That block a ton of light expecially when foggy/not 100% transparent. Also this will help with oxygenation and gas exchange. Other than only a 10 day cycle I would suggest fish problems to begin with. From what you have explained unless ammonia was high I don't think your fish would die in 3 days from anything else. It doesn't help you were away so you couldn't observe behavior. But I would strongly suggest not another fish for a few weeks to see what other one does and keep an eye on perameters.

 

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[ann arbor hokie]

Three thoughts:

 

1. How are you testing parameters?  Can you confirm them with someone else's test?  Even a petco test (though i not sure how much faith i put in them) could let you know if what youre reading is accurate.  Test kit could be off.

 

2. Where did the live rock and sand come from?  Any chance it was contaminated?  Perhaps heavy phosphates?

 

3. Though it wouldnt solve the firefish, how intense are your lights?  Have they gone from an underpowered system at BRK to high intensity with your current?  Can you dial back intensity at all?

[mari.harutunian]

The fish may have just been sick from the get go and couldn't handle the stress of changing to a new tank. Zoas honestly are the most temperamental corals in my tank and it was due to not properly light acclimating. You'd think putting them at the bottom of the tank would be enough but it wasn't for the ones I had until I put them in shade. Keep an eye on them though and the yasha goby.

 

 

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[Nart]

@khh27 I will not add anything and continue to monitor the yasha and zoa that's in there already. Though it is very hard to monitor the yasha. He is literally inside the rock where there's a hole big enough just for his body to sneak in. The only way I was able to even check on if he was alive was use a small airline hose and blew some bubbles and he stuck his mouth out thinking it was food.

 

@ann arbor hokie Reponse to your three questions below:

1) I am testing my water parameters all with the API test tube/dropper test kit. My final confirmation results with BRK (my LFS) was just for salinity, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate and it matched what I tested. I should've asked them to test for pH, kh, and phosphate too. I do not use Petco whatsoever for any of my tests or purchases. As for my testing, I am very thorough and use exact measurements.

 

2) The live sand was from Amazon. I had bought the CaribSea Aragonite bimni pink 20lbs bag. The live rock was from APurpleReef.com, it is man made live rock. I tested my phosphates through out the cycle and after the cycle, the highest was 0.25, currently it is at 0.0. I did however, add a 1.9lbs Fiji live rock that I bought from BRK to help with my cycle. It is covered in just a little of coralline, phosphates continued to test 0.0.

 

3) I do not think my lights are intense at all, but experts please do chime in. These lights actually came from my freshwater tank from my low-tech plants that worked very well for that application. I will dial back down the intensity and move it away from the zoas. It was directly above them before. Here are the specs for the light that I bought from Amazon: Current USA Satellite Freshwater LED Light for Aquarium 24-36", super bright 6500k white LEDS and rich 445Nm Blue LEDS. (I do not plan on keeping hard to keep corals at all. Just the very easy and low-tech light corals)

 

@mari.harutunian Hmm... it might've been frying under the light while I was gone? I have it on a timer for 4 hours on in the AM and then turns off and comes back on for 5 hours in the afternoon. I can try to shift it under my rock some.

[WheresTheReef]

I floated the bag for about 45mins then proceeded to put about 1/4 cup of water in every 10-15mins for about 1 hour. Put in the purple firefish and yasha goby, and coral dipped/turkey baster blasted the zoas with Coral RX dipping solution.

 

...

 

Left for a weekend trip Friday noon... came back on Sunday afternoon.

 

Hi Benjamin, sorry about your fish. Fish may/may not have had an issue, but IMHO you should update your acclimation procedure.

 

Did you test the water (at least salinity) in the bag before acclimating? The purpose of acclimation is to match parameters (temp/salinity/ph) and w/o testing you don't know how much acclimation is actually needed. A 45 min float is excessive. The initial float is to match temp and 15 mins should be enough. After you open the bag, put in an ammonia binder such as Prime if your fish has been bagged 1 hour or more.

 

Some vendors run their salinity very low and this requires longer acclimation. Others run their salinity closer to your reef levels and would require very little acclimation. Either way I would test with a refractometer to see how much acclimation is required. You can put in 1/4 - 1/2 cup of your tank water every 5 mins until you fill the bag or match the sg. If the sg is within 0.001-0.002 then you can add the fish in and discard the water in the bag. If you fill the bag then dump out 1/2 the water and repeat these steps until you match the sg. 

 

Of course, I always highly recommend a QT and you can greatly reduce the acclimation by adjusting the water in the QT prior to buying the fish. I ask at what sg the vendor keeps the fish at. I test the water in the bag regardless when I buy the fish to verify the level. A QT also provides a place for you to observe the fish, treat if necessary and get it used to eating. I perform prophylactic treatment since I have lost many fish to disease, but this isn't for everyone. I keep my QT cycled at all times so I can keep water quality high at all times. This can seem overwhelming especially when starting out, but worth a consideration. 

 

I would also recommend not getting any new fish when you are leaving for an extended time. You should spend the initial days/weeks observing the fish. There may be a small window to treat the fish (in a separate tank) if you notice any issues with it. If it dies in your small tank, it can cause lots of issues with your existing livestock. Most importantly, don't get discouraged. We all have lost some fish unfortunately.

[Nart]

@wheresthereef thank you for your concern. It is very demoralizing losing any fishes for me. Thank you for your acclimation guide. I did not check the SG prior to acclimating. Usually I am very thorough, but I was rushing to get things done (for reasons I will not mention. Cough, wife.) I will make note of all this and be sure to do this next time.

 

I am a preacher of QT'ing as well in the freshwater world. I just don't have the resources or space to setup a secondary saltwater tank. Thus, the reason I am willing to pay for higher quality fishes from reputable LFS's.

 

 

Thank you for everyone's help.

Someone did advise me to check my "stray current" as well. I thought to myself huh? So I did some researching and found that Aqueon had discontinued their Pro line (not sure why). Also, found that some folks electrocuted themselves with faulty Aqueon Pro or plastic sheath heaters. Not sure if the Purple Firefish died to this, but he was found dead right besides my heater. I am going to switch out the heater to my Fluval heater just in case and continue to monitor my water parameters and the yasha/zoas.

Lastly, I think I read my KH wrong. Someone else advised me that for the API KH test kits, the reading is determined when the color turns lime. If this is the case, all my KH readings are subtracted by 1. So prior to the fishes going into my tank my KH was 7 and upon returning on Sunday to find the dead firefish, my KH was 6.

[Rob A]

If this is your light mentioned in the article listed below then I doubt it's anywhere near bright enough for your corals, even for zoas, unless you move them up pretty high, even then It might not be enough.

 

Depth in Inches PAR Readings in Micromoles

12”  36 micromoles/cm2

18”  28 micromoles/cm2

24”  21 micromoles/cm2

 

http://current-usa.com/is-the-satellite-freshwater-led-plus-bright-enough/

Edited January 16, 2017 by Rob A

[GOSKN5]

Just to add one thing that wasn't mentioned.. as far as the fish is concerned.. alk, cal, mag, phosphate doesn't affect fish unless it's just insanely high/low.. even then it might not (but might affect other water quality parameters, which do.. ph)...

 

As for the zoas.. they aren't dead and I wouldn't be too concerned as sometimes new frags take a while to settle in...

 

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[Nart]

@Rob A it is very similar except the lights in that article does not have the blue LEDS, but I am going to assume as a whole it is the same and I have insufficient lighting. SOB! Does anyone have lights that they would recommend that's relatively low cost and can grow some low light corals? Preferably on amazon.

 

@GOSKN5 Ah. Thank you for the insight. I just didn't want to chalk it up to a mysterious death and wanted to make sure I am doing/going to do everything right.

[GOSKN5]

If the other fish is still alive I would consider it an issue with the fish or stress... sometimes fish just die.. especially when stressed.. and fire fish seem to be high strung haha

 

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[Nart]

So I just checked my water parameters. pH 8.4, ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 5, phosphate 0.25, KH 8, salinity 1.023.

 

The yasha goby is alive! Took me about 45min to find him. My gosh they are little hiding experts. I target fed him mysis shrimp. Zoas doing about the same. I am running the tank with the lid open and the strongest setting with the LEDs and the opened polyps seem to be opening even more.

 

 

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[molcott]

you can probably get away with a 2 or 4 bulbs t5 with ATI bulbs

[zygote2k]

Firefish and goby bagged together? Typical Petsmart/Petco tactic may have resulted in a fish fight in the bag. 

Firefish may have starved to death or may have already been in weakened condition and the few days more without food killed it.

Tanks do not completely cycle in 10 days. Maybe the nitrogen cycle was completed for the small amount of initial ammonia added, but not a complete and full cycle. That usually takes 60-120 days.

All of those chemicals in the filter are only hindering or delaying the cycling process and some may even mask or skew test results.

Buy a set of Salifert test kits- Alk, Cal, Mg, Po4, N03 and record results weekly before water changes.

Don't chase a value of something- establish a baseline first, then watch over time to see how that particular value changes.

[Nart]

Firefish and goby bagged together? Typical Petsmart/Petco tactic may have resulted in a fish fight in the bag.

Firefish may have starved to death or may have already been in weakened condition and the few days more without food killed it.

Tanks do not completely cycle in 10 days. Maybe the nitrogen cycle was completed for the small amount of initial ammonia added, but not a complete and full cycle. That usually takes 60-120 days.

All of those chemicals in the filter are only hindering or delaying the cycling process and some may even mask or skew test results.

Buy a set of Salifert test kits- Alk, Cal, Mg, Po4, N03 and record results weekly before water changes.

Don't chase a value of something- establish a baseline first, then watch over time to see how that particular value changes.

Hi.

 

No, they were bagged separately.

If it matters, the tank was dosed up to 4ppm of ammonium chloride and 2ppm after it was cycled. And as for the chemicals, those were added after the cycle. I never cycle any of my tanks with chemical bags. And yes I keep a journal of all my results. Thank you for your inputs. I am looking into a better test kit in the near future.

 

 

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[Nart]

@zygote2 Also - these fishes were not purchased from Petco or Petsmart. As said by others and further researching on firefish in general. Lots of other people also lost their firefish usually under the 2 week time period due to stress of acclimating in a new tank. I wished I knew of all this before I went ahead to purchase the firefish. I thought I was doing the responsible thing purchasing a firefish as my first fish because they are listed as a beginners fish on every site. Little did I know... they aren't really good for a first tank fish.

 

I think when most people mention cycle, they do mean nitrogen cycle. So yes, my nitrogen cycle completed in 10 days. I am going to disagree on the part about the "small amount of initial ammonia added". Typically to even yield a 4PPM ammonia level in this size tank... you would need a very fully stocked tank/overfeeding with all the fishes excreting at once in the same time for a 4ppm+ yield. When you say a complete and full cycle, "60-120 days" I think you are referring more towards the tank aging and being more stable. In theory, a tank is never complete and fully cycled.