Sump/filtration Question

[jon_703]

Im getting a sump this week and will have an overflow box since my tank is setup and not drilled.

 

1. Can i get rid of my canister filter and run the sump without a skimmer?

 

I have a HOB Skimmer that ill use until i get a decent skimmer to put in the sump, but i just want the canister filter out the way.

 

Ive heard stores that running a sump with overflow box will sometimes overflow your tank.

 

2. Is this user error or is this just a risk that comes with the setup?

 

THANKS!

 

 

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[flooddc]

1. Yes, you can run a sump without a skimmer.

2. There are 2 scenario that would cause overflow with hob overflow box

a) siphon break or clogged drain, your return pump continues to pump water into your tank and eventually overflow. You can avoid this by making your return chamber small enough so that the volume in the return pump chamber is less than the volume from overflow line to the rim of the tank.

b) power outage or dead return pump where water siphon back into the sump and overflow the sump. You can also avoid this by drilling a small hole under the return loc-line to break the siphon (reliable) or install a check valve (not reliable) or both. Also, configure your sump to handle enough water volume drained down or siphon back from DT in case if outage or failed return pump.

[jon_703]

 

 

1. Yes, you can run a sump without a skimmer.

2. There are 2 scenario that would cause overflow with hob overflow box

a) siphon break or clogged drain, your return pump continues to pump water into your tank and eventually overflow. You can avoid this by making your return chamber small enough so that the volume in the return pump chamber is less than the volume from overflow line to the rim of the tank.

b) power outage or dead return pump where water siphon back into the sump and overflow the sump. You can also avoid this by drilling a small hole under the return loc-line to break the siphon (reliable) or install a check valve (not reliable) or both. Also, configure your sump to handle enough water volume drained down or siphon back from DT in case if outage or failed return pump.

This was great info, thanks!

 

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[jon_703]

This was great info, thanks!

 

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So I finally have my sump setup and it's fantastic! Only thing going is that my skimmer is producing bunch of micro bubbles. I had this problem with my HOB skimmer which I replaced with an in sump skimmer. I purchased the skimmer used, very lightly used. It's was cleaned thoroughly, so it has to break in again.

 

I know micro bubbles are normal, what's an average waiting period for micro bubbles to stop forming from a new skimmer?

 

Also, my overflow box still making a lot of noise. Is the CPR overflow box quit?

 

Thanks!

 

 

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[Rob A]

I don't think there is enough baffle area (bubble trap area) for your bubbles to rise and pop before they just get sucked in to the return pump.

[jon_703]

I don't think there is enough baffle area (bubble trap area) for your bubbles to rise and pop before they just get sucked in to the return pump.

I'm going to try and turn it the other way and see if that helps.....

[flooddc]

I don't think there is enough baffle area (bubble trap area) for your bubbles to rise and pop before they just get sucked in to the return pump.

1+ ^^^^

 

You can try adding filter floss to the part that goes into the retrun chamber to eliminate some bubbles or try wrapping this mesh around the return pump: http://www.walmart.com/ip/Plastic-Canvas-7-Count-12-X18-Clear/32823894?action=product_interest&action_type=title&item_id=32823894&placement_id=irs-302-m3&strategy=PWVAV&visitor_id&category=&client_guid=b4516542-f342-4353-8d7b-7531fd8069c9&customer_id_enc&config_id=302&parent_item_id=32765533&parent_anchor_item_id=32765533&guid=d0faf9dd-0bc9-4191-8030-87fc134a10d6&bucket_id=irsbucketdefault&beacon_version=1.0.1&findingMethod=p13n

[Rob A]

Ah, the floss and mesh might solve the problem entirely. If not, you could try increasing the water height in the pump chamber to make the bubble trap taller, then slow down the flow until the bubbles aren't getting sucked down to the pump.

[Origami]

... try increasing the water height in the pump chamber to make the bubble trap taller, then slow down the flow until the bubbles aren't getting sucked down to the pump.

+1

 

Plus, raise that black filter foam up a few inches so that any trapped bubbles have a better chance of rising up on the trap side of the bubble trap and not on the return pump side.

 

In fact, you can feel comfortable raising the level in the return chamber up as high as what you're running in the skimmer chamber if you want. 

[jon_703]

+1

 

Plus, raise that black filter foam up a few inches so that any trapped bubbles have a better chance of rising up on the trap side of the bubble trap and not on the return pump side.

 

In fact, you can feel comfortable raising the level in the return chamber up as high as what you're running in the skimmer chamber if you want.

Would raising the water level in return pump side help with bubbles?

 

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[Origami]

Would raising the water level in return pump side help with bubbles?

Raising that open cell foam filter might do more for this. It's an easy adjustment as is turning your skimmer a little to move the outflow further away from the bubble trap partition.  Adding water to the other side may help any bubbles that do get away to rise up further away from the return pump intake. I'm not sure that it really would do anything to make the bubble trap "taller." However, if you wanted to try that, take a piece of thin acrylic or something and try temporarily pinning it in place to make that last partition reach further down toward the floor of the sump. That, in effect, will make that bubble trap taller.

[madweazl]

Not sure exactly which overflow you're running but I made this for an Eshopps HOB overflow that worked great (google gurgle buster for other ideas). It made a huge difference for me (I was in Japan at the time so everything is metric ).

 

For the microbubbles, you might be able to attach a prefilter bag to the outlet of the skimmer (make sure it doesn't restrict flow or it can cause tuning problems). Might be able to get away with just running a taller foam block between the chambers as well (running just above the overflow between the skimmer and return chamber).

Edited June 7, 2016 by madweazl

[madweazl]

On another note, you had inquired about the CPR overflow. I ran one with good results along with an aqualifter pump however, it is a major pain in the but to clean! I've had the typical HOB overflow on many different tanks over the years and never had a siphon break or an overflow due to other issues. When plumbing, at a gate/ball valve to the pump output line and keep the flow below the max of the overflow and you should be in pretty good shape (or a pump that is rated below the overflows max).

[jon_703]

Not sure exactly which overflow you're running but I made this for an Eshopps HOB overflow that worked great (google gurgle buster for other ideas). It made a huge difference for me (I was in Japan at the time so everything is metric ).

 

For the microbubbles, you might be able to attach a prefilter bag to the outlet of the skimmer (make sure it doesn't restrict flow or it can cause tuning problems). Might be able to get away with just running a taller foam block between the chambers as well (running just above the overflow between the skimmer and return chamber).

Thanks madweazl! I'm also running an ESHOPPS overflow box. The water falling into the overflow box that is inside the tank is kind of noisy too. I wish they made a cover for it :/ I'll try making the gurggle buster.

[madweazl]

You can slow the flow rate of the return pump down to help with that since the refugium doesn't really need a high flow rate (not sure where you're at now). You obviously don't want to turn it down too much but this is something you can try to reach a balance.

[jon_703]

So I decided to just deal with the water noise from the overflow box for now. Now my problem is micro bubbles from my Skimmer. I've been trying to tune it but I'm not getting any results. Any ideas?

 

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[GraffitiSpotCorals]

Be careful running a hob overflow without an aqua lifted especially if you are having micro bubbles. The bubbles will get cought in the tube of the overflow and make the flow slow down and water level rise in your display. This is another way to overflow your tank.

[jon_703]

Be careful running a hob overflow without an aqua lifted especially if you are having micro bubbles. The bubbles will get cought in the tube of the overflow and make the flow slow down and water level rise in your display. This is another way to overflow your tank.

Didn't even think about that. The bubbles have gotten a lot better. than put a sponge filter at the output of the skimmer.

 

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[madweazl]

Be careful running a hob overflow without an aqua lifted especially if you are having micro bubbles. The bubbles will get cought in the tube of the overflow and make the flow slow down and water level rise in your display. This is another way to overflow your tank.

 

Certainly a possibility but if there is decent flow, the bubbles get drawn all the way through pretty easy. I've never had one break siphon /knockonwood

[jon_703]

Certainly a possibility but if there is decent flow, the bubbles get drawn all the way through pretty easy. I've never had one break siphon /knockonwood

Yeah it's a pretty strong flow. I'm still tuning the skimmer since I still have bubbles :/

 

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[jon_703]

Got new stand and finally raised the Skimmer! And no more micro bubbles!!!! YAY

 

 

 

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[s2nhle]

great. congratulation.

[jon_703]

great. congratulation.

Thanks. Took longer than it should've to get that right.

 

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