Mixing tanks

[emissary]

In my design for my new fish room, I was planning on using a used 55G acrylic tank as a mixing tank for saltwater. There'll be a 40G freshwater resevoir above the 55G that I can drain into the 55G using a ball valve. I'll plumb the 55G so that by turning a ball valve I can dump its contents into the sump of the main system.

 

So of course I was thinking I'd keep the 55G full of water, heated to 78, circulating, and add salt to taste. What I've observed lately though is that when I leave fresh saltwater mixing in a bucket and kept warm there's a rough white film that develops on the pump, on the heater... and around the inside of the bucket I get maybe the same white -- although since the bucket is white it looks brownish -- film buildup. If I wash the bucket as soon as I'm done with the water change I can get rid of the stuff, otherwise it cakes on. Vinegar gets rid of it quite effectively.

 

What am I working with here? Calcium precipitate? Bacterial growth? If I have a permanent 55G tank that's used for this purpose, will I over time be making dirty water?

[fishface]

I used a brown rubbermaid trash bin, and never had that until recently. So I have no idea why is just showed up now.

 

Anyone else know?

I assumed that I over salted the mix and it precipitated, but I can't say one way or the other. Once the cheesy swingarm goes shows over 1.030 then you can't tell. Yeah, I should have a refractometer.

FF

[emissary]

Yeah, I should have a refractometer.

 

As a side note, having one is less useful than "knowing" what your swing arm means. I *know* that my swing arm means 1.025 when it reads 1.0225. I've cross checked with a refractometer I have. So for quick and dirty, I use my swing arm. If I ever need to double check, or periodically just to make sure my swing arm is still in tune with where it was -- I use the refractometer.

 

None of this helps the carbonate (?) buildup question.

[emissary]

Ok, so as I feared, I've got brown stuff growing on my plumbing and walls of my mixing tank. In addition, over the course of a few days it starts developing little floaters at the top of the tank that are possible (if not cumbersome) to "skim" off by allowing the surface to overflow into a jug.

 

Nevertheless, over the course of a week, only slightly salted water has TURNED BROWN. I mean, I pour some into a bucket and it looks clearly brown to the eye. Now that CAN'T be good. And it can help explain the algae growth I'm seeing in my 180.

 

Help Help Help!

 

What IS this stuff? How do I get rid of it and make it not come back? My mixing tank has a heater and a mag7. Should it have an airstone too? What can I do to eliminate traces of this brown stuff? Vinegar seems to work over the immediate term, but it seems to come back...

[YBeNormal]

I use a 35g rubbermaid trash can for my SW reserves and I've always noticed the brown film after the water has aged for several days. I've tried using other containers with the same results. Running a HOT Magnum with a micron filter seems to help some but doesn't prevent the scum from building up over time. I now try to keep only a small emergency reserve and rinse the container, pump, tubing and heater very well between batches.

 

IRT the swing arm, do you really find it easier to use than a refractometer? I think swing arms are a royal PITA compared to refractometers!

[emissary]

IRT the swing arm, do you really find it easier to use than a refractometer? I think swing arms are a royal PITA compared to refractometers!

 

Much easier. Grab, dip in, read, dump, toss. Refractometer I've got to get out, put on drops, read in light, clean off, put away.

 

So ... what do folks with bigger tanks do for water changes? Seems like you want to be able to make water and then have it *ready to go* right? Others facing this scum problem?

[rocko918]

Well, you have light in the room which will promote growth of algae. Using a clear tank is going to let all the light in. I use a grey rubbermaid container with the top on it so no light gets in. What about painting the tank or getting something that does not let light seap in?

[flowerseller]

I use a green trash can and keep the lid cocked on it to allow for gas exchange.

I think along with BOB.

[rocko918]

I use a green trash can and keep the lid cocked on it to allow for gas exchange.

I think along with BOB.

 

yes my lid is not snapped on either, with a 2 power heads in it, one pointing at the surface.

[flowerseller]

I use my trusty 15 yld AQUA CLEAR 802 pointing towards the side top to allow for a generous rippling of the water surface but not enough to appear as a "rolling boil".

I do this because I find it increases the PH buy exchanging gases but doesn't allow the calcium and barium to bind and collect on the container sides and equipment.

I also heat the water as needed but not quite as warm as the tank temp.

This works for me.

Then I have my wife clean up and clean out the container as needed.

This does not work for me.

[emissary]

Yeah, I thought of the light issue. It's not quite dark in there since the top's open, but I do limit the amount of light that can get in. I could do a wee bit better I suppose.

 

 

Sounds like maybe I need more gas exchange... tilt my mag 7. will try these approaches.

[Lee Stearns]

I just use a 5 gallon water bucket that I always have full of new salt water- I have a power head running in it all the time and a heater. Never had any issues with anything growing in it, or floating-- though I have had some calcium build up on the sides- Change out one or two 5 gallon buckets worth a week depending on if I have time- usually on friday and sunday, for a 150 gallon tank with 35 gallon fuge/sump. SO I estimate about 15-20 percet per month, just in small quantities. Simple: I just put in a rather large premeasured scoop of salt into the bucket and fill it with RO water and 24 hours later it is ready to use or it just sits till I do use it- the Power head keeps it stirred and areated- the heater at about the same temp as the tank. No terrible precision is required as it is such a small percent of the total tank water- clean out the 5 gallon bucket about once every six months. I actually use the salt water ouit of my main tank to change the water in my sea horse tank which is only a 54 gallon tank- so it is getting 10% or more a week. I then pour the sea horse tank water along the fence line in my back yard - which does a great job in keeping the weeds down along the fence

I check the salinity in both the main and horse tank about once a week with a refractometer- but it is alway steady so I imagine you could go several weeks with out testing salinity. I almost never test the salinity of the new Salt Water- what is the point if the main tank is remaining about the sameand I use the same scoop of salt in a 5 gallon bucket of RODI water.

Of course top off during the week for the slightly over 1 gallon per day evap rate is with fresh Ro/Di water through a kalk drip on the main tank only.

[Gatortailale]

Then I have my wife clean up and clean out the container as needed.

This does not work for me.

 

where have I heard that before

 

 

Too funny chip

[fishface]

I jsut re-read this, and your post on the 6th about having algea in your 180 leads me to think that your ro/di needs the tds content tested.

In the mixing tank/tub/container, you can get a slight whitish film on the surface after 3 or 4 days. But it should be slight, and you can nearly eliminate that with a power head and that's it.

 

If you are getting brown algea, then two points that were touched on come into play.

1. First, in general you shouldn't have the brown stuff. If you do get it, nothing should develop in to little floaters. Clean and dry the container and all piping and equipment that was in it, it ir it will serve to re-inoculate the new water each time you make a batch.

2. If you see that the main tank is also displaying an algae problem, your TDS may be high and it worth checking it. Your new water is not actually sterile, but it should not be able to allow much to grow in a short time.

3. Yes, light is a limiting factor, but if the mixing tank only gets indirect light you should not have anything grow into a bacterial (whitish) or algael colony that's large enough to float.

 

Hope that helps.

 

FF

[emissary]

I jsut re-read this, and your post on the 6th about having algea in your 180 leads me to think that your ro/di needs the tds content tested.

My first thought as well. I did discover my DI cartridges were being used up too fast, but the output was still near zero. Replaced the membrane and DI and I'm back at 0. So it's not that. It's *after* it gets into the mixing tank.

 

And it's definitely the brown stuff.

[emissary]

Okay, STILL haven't figured out what's going on here. Emptied out the tank cleaned it all out with vinegar, dried it, brought it back in. Mixed saltwater water for 24 hours and it was in good shape. Did a water change. Added new RO/DI, added salt. Mixed for another 24 hours -- brown floaters.

 

I don't know at this point whether I can even safely use this water for a water change without continuing to feed my algae bloom (which is in decline, thankfully). Maybe it's the heater?! The first day I forgot the heater. The second day I made sure to add one to keep the temp at around 78-79. Regardless, the first day, with the pump alone the heat in the mixing tank managed to get up to 78. This is so frustrating.

[davelin315]

Maybe your salt is contaminated. Try to use a different batch of salt. It's possible that at some point in time some bacteria got in there (although I can't imagine them living through those conditions) or maybe you have some spores in there that are maturing when the salt hits the water.

[emissary]

Maybe your salt is contaminated. Try to use a different batch of salt. It's possible that at some point in time some bacteria got in there (although I can't imagine them living through those conditions) or maybe you have some spores in there that are maturing when the salt hits the water.

 

Nope, brand new bag. I'm thinking maybe the PUMP is contaminated? I have a new pump I can use. I'm pretty sure if I use this pump in an established system whatever's in it would just get taken care of. :-\

[fab]

Soooo... what finally happened here. It's been about a month since your last post on this problem. Did you rid yourself of the 'brown stuff?' If so, what did you do that made it go away?

 

fab

[emissary]

Soooo... what finally happened here. It's been about a month since your last post on this problem. Did you rid yourself of the 'brown stuff?' If so, what did you do that made it go away?

 

I have not! :( ... my solution -- no water changes!

 

That has worked well to bring the algae under control but not a good long term solution. The lid didn't help. Taking the heater out didn't help. I'm a bit at a loss. If I make water NO MORE THAN 1 day in advance I can minimize the brown stuff and the skimmer and whatnot should be able to handle the new nutrient intake. Haven't tested this of course, waiting for the alge to all go away. It's 90% gone at this point.

 

[dhoch]

Couple questions....

 

1) is it covered? (it could be dust that is feeding your alga problem in your water change water).

 

2) Light source for it?

 

I think the two things you could do would be to cover it and make it not receive light and see what happends... maybe you allready tried this....

 

Dave

[ErikS]

I've had this happen before - generally when I let the new stuff sit/stir for an extended period. I'd guess light & stuff in the air = algae. If it's closed off from light you may have the reoccuring issue because of stuff "inside". I had to completely clean out the tank, pipes included.

[emissary]

Couple questions....

 

1) is it covered? (it could be dust that is feeding your alga problem in your water change water).

 

2) Light source for it?

 

I think the two things you could do would be to cover it and make it not receive light and see what happends... maybe you allready tried this....

 

Dave

 

Yeah I bought a cover (laminate from HD cut to size) to eliminate light/dust. Shrug.

[davjbeas]

I have the same issue. I use a rubbermaid heavy duty trash can for mixing saltwater. i prepare new water 3 days to a week in advance before a water change. i noticed the brown dust accumulate and never thought much of it. i decided to clean the trash can a week or so ago. I put it in my shower and scrubbed it with a old washcloth. It was incredible how much filth was washed out of the can. This stuff is definately not algae of any sort. I doubt if any elements in the salt react with the plastic of the trash can, but it is possible i guess.

I don't know what the brown dust is. I do plan to keep the can cleaner in the future. I have a low alkalinity problem in my tank(7 dkh) I wonder if this brown dust could be a sign that the new saltwater is not perfect.

 

David B.

[jason the filter freak]

I used to keep a 29 gallon when I had my brakish set up to have premixed (salt and buffer mixture) water for the 60 cube tank I was keeping my cichlids in. I had a similar problem, and took these steps to solve it.

 

Put a cover fitted cover over the mixing tank, this solved two problems 1. Kept the mixing water from evaporating at a high rate. 2. Put some holes in the lid to allow for gas exchange.

 

Added 2 power heads, one to cirulate the bottom and the other aimed at the surface at a 45 degree angle to help break surface tension.

 

Added an air stone and air pump to help the water be oxygenated when I put it in my main tank, and to allow for gas exchange.

 

Lastly I put a fountain pump in the tank to pump the water in the 60 gallon, however when I wasn't using it to pump water into my main tank, I had the tube u'ed back into the 29 gallon tank and running and this did two things, allowed for more circulation, but I also installed a cylinder inline with STUFFED filter floss, which at first didn't take anything out of what was suposed to be clean water, but after about a month it made a diffrence.