Please critique this pluming plan.

[Larry Grenier]

Please critique this pluming plan. The 58 or 65 display tank will be upstairs and the sump & refugium/frag tank will be in the basement. I already have the aquariums and furniture in the basement. The top of the 35 acrylic will only be about 1 foot from the ceiling/floor. Part of the 55 below would be a frag rack and the other would be a refugium & maybe some mangroves.

[HowardofNOVA]

Larry,

IMHO

#1 Go high with your tank display stand, I'm fast becoming a big fan of these for better viewing of your tank!

#2 I would make sure that all the return pump are on the same electrical line, so 2 fails and 1 keep going and going and going!

#3 MaxiJet 1200 seems kind of small for turn over in 55g, might want to go to Mag 3 or 5 if I was you, but the Seio should do fine for the frags

#4 Are you going to divide the 55g for 1 side the fuge and other frag. Fuges are usually alot slower water flows to allow the little fellows to multiply better?

Howard

[rioreef]

1. Regarding your water level off. The difference you have for the power on level and the off level will be equal to the amount of water that drains back from the main tank and then all this water along with the amount gained from the 35g tank, all dumping into the 55g. Have you calculated correctly? Add a good tolerence for safety.

 

2. Can the overflow between the 35g and the 55g handle a flow greater than that which drains from the main tank to the 35g, which will probably have a greater draining force because of pressure. Also, the chamber of a skimmer will have water above the normal water level of the 35g, account for the amount above the 35g overflow in your calculations too (not much but it adds up).

 

3. The level of the overflow from the 35g to the 55g should be optimized for the skimmer water depth desired or make sure you have enough room to raise the skimmer for proper operating water depth.

 

4. Got enough room to remove the skimmer? Looks close to the ceiling.

 

5. Water may slosh if you lean against that heavy-duty rack during maintence, then a cascade affect may happen :bigcry: If the rack can handle all the weight plus extra (mind the correct shelf material) I would secure it to the wall in some manner.

 

6. Unfinished basement means cooler temps, size the heaters (plural for backup) to handle the necessary temp difference increase.

[rocko918]

IMHO-

 

i would also give yourself more space between the sump and the ceiling. You are going to want to be able to stick you hands in there and just have a better view on it than standing on a ladder every time you need to get in it. Don't make it more difficult than it has to be. If you are worried about the pump and distance the water will have to flow than get a bigger pump.

 

Careful with ballvales, make sure you have screen over the intakes. I had a snail go down there an clog the pipe and over flow the tank. If you have 2 drains than it's not a problem.

[rioreef]

When construction a stand the weight of the tank should not rest on fasterners alone, it should rest on the structural material. Your design has it resting on the fasterners of the shelving unit.

 

Vibrations on a stand like that?

 

 

Get some 2x4s and make your own.

[Ne0eN]

Larry,

 

1. Have you calculated your head losses? Mag 9.5 seems a little underpowered to go up a floor. I'm using Mag 9.5 on my 60gal reef, and my head distance is only 40"...

 

2. How did you come up with the 'power-off' water level? There is a lot of water in the lines if you go up one floor. For safety I would put the refugium above the sump. You never know what may happen during power outage (check valve fail, etc).

 

3. I would leave more access room over your sump. One foot is not enough to do maintenance, skimmer/pump cleaning, etc...

 

4. Since you're starting from scratch - are you sure you only want 60gal display??? One year from now you may be thinking about 120/180gal... (like we all do)

 

Good luck! keep us posted....

 

-Rob

[Larry Grenier]

Thanks folks, I'm considering all your advice.

 

Probably change my design.

 

3' tank is as big as I can go in the family room. I'l have fun fraggin in the 55 in the basement :D

[Larry Grenier]

Here's a revision of the basement portion.

 

1) Refugium is higher tank with minimal flow. The refugium could be a smaller tank but it's one I have sitting around and it's easy to drill acrylic for an overflow bulkhead.

2) Skimmer is in lower tank for easier access.

3) Larger return pump (blew my budget :bigcry: )

 

When the power goes out, I don't expect the levels of the 35 and the 58/65 to drop too much and the 55's normal level will be several inches from the top. I set-up a 75 with a durso and a 30 gallon sump a few years ago and learned how to deal with power outages not causing overflows. Structure/stability of the furniture is not an issue.

[flowerseller]

I think you'll have water on the floor during poweroff.

[davelin315]

Hey Larry, here's my take on your plumbing. I think that if you're going through the floor, you might as well go all out on the size of the sump. Get yourself a 300 gallon tub or more (rubbermaid makes one that is reasonably priced - you can get it at Tractor Supply around here or order it from McMaster-Carr or Grainger at good prices) or get a huge sump of some sort. The amount of head loss from the sump to the tank will be a very big drain on your overall pumping capacities as well. My guess is that your tank, being a 58 or 65, is most likely around 4' off the ground where the return is. Add to this a 90 degree elbow and you're now at 5' head. Add in another 12-18" for the distance between your floor and the ceiling in your basement and you're at 6-7' already. Then, add in the distance from your basement ceiling to the place where the pump is (assuming you have 9' ceilings) located at the bottom of your sump, and that is probably adding another 5-6'. This leaves you with between 11-13' of head, and it's not just pumping up a couple of feet, it's a completely vertical climb, and you're looking at a Mag 12, assuming you're using the 3/4" pipe that matches your inlet and outlet, and assuming you have absolutely nothing blocking the return such as sort of strainer on the inlet or a reducing nozzle of some sort at the tank end, you're looking at between 100-400 gallons per hour at peak conditions, meaning you clean the pump and make sure it's operating at full capacity all of the time. Also, the Mag 12 does not have pumping capabilities per factory specs beyond 14', so you're really pushing the envelope here since you have to look at the fact that pumps seldom run exactly to specs.

 

Besides the huge sump in the basement to make it all worthwhile (and you'd probably need to really increase your heater at this point), here's what else I would change.

 

Since you've got a stand, put something in it! Take that refugium, especially since it's only a 35, and stick it into the stand. Make that your frag tank and mount your lights in the cabinet under your tank. Since your sump will be in the basement, this will also offset your heat a bit. Have the main tank drain into your frag tank and then have a drain built into this one as well. Flow will go from the sump, up to the display tank, from the display tank down to the frag tank, and from the frag tank down to the sump. You create a situation where the water cycles through the entire system and you don't need any additional flow in your frag tank if you plumb your system right. By this I mean that you can have the tank overflow going into one side of your frag tank and then draining out to the sump from the other side. This will allow you to have excellent flow and removal of detritus from your frag tank. If you're really worried about alternating current, throw the maxijet in there as a powerhead on a timer that will flow in the opposite direction of the flow of the water to create a different flow.

 

In your sump, the whole thing will basically act as a refugium. Set aside one area of the sump that has a constant water level by putting your skimmer into a bucket or something and having the pump outside of this, and then have the return pump under the skimmer. Use a large submersible pump here that is water cooled so that you also offset the temperature of the basement, and you will have a decent set up. Again, in my mind it's not worth doing unless you're going to go large.

[fishface]

Hi Larry:

 

I have a basement sump, and have some experience with it. Yet I don't really expect them to all be set up the same way either.

 

I have a few points or observations. I think that Howard meant to say to "Do Not put all pumps on the same line" in case of a circuit tripping. Also, apply that to heaters too. Very important!

And check that you really are plugging things into a different circuit by tripping the breaker. I found that I have 1 circuit that goes around part of my basement and then up to the kitchen, causing tripped breakers! So even devices being on different floors is in no way a guarantee that they are on a different ciruit.

 

You can buy a 100 gal rubbermaid horse trough at Southern states for 70 bucks. It would catch all overflow when/if pump shut off, and offers greater water volume. The bulkhead is cheap and need to be siliconed. That dump can even be used for propagation and you don't need two separate tanks, pumps and other complexities. I agree with Davelin's comments regarding flow, but he forgot to tell you about his surge/'fuge!

 

I have a mud sump and plenty of critters, but the amount that makes it past the impeller must be greatly reduced on the larger amphipods. Look for the post by Davelin315 that has a great gravity fed 'fuge, that encorporates a surge. He built it for maybe $20. I will do the same after having seen it! I will add a small 14 x 6 'fuge over the display. The water then pulls the pods as the surge triggers so they are not being frappe'd(sp?) by a pump.

A related thought is that either way, don't put the skimmer in the same tank as the 'fuge. I believe that you'd primarily want the fuge to feed critters to the tank, so again, the over-tank or hang-on fuge is theoretically a better setup. You might still end up keeping a fuge in the basement for nutrient export too. That's up to you-as is everything.

 

And my story: After I installed the raised horse trough in Feb, etc. in Nov my wife and I decided that we need more room in the living room and also wanted to install hardwood floors. And I had corals bleach in August due to the heat, even with 50 gallons of volume in the basement. So I wanted to move the 75 gal display downstairs.

The raised horse trough was too high to allow proper drainage once the tank was in place!

 

So you can Never tell what the future brings, but do expect to need a larger tank anyway. Seems like you have given this a lot of thought. One thing that everyone wants is a larger tank!

Good luck!

FF

[Ne0eN]

Whoa, that's a lot of information guys! One thing is apparent. The Mag pump may not be sufficient here (not even Mag 12). I think you should start looking at Iwaki external pumps. What size is your return plumbing? You may want to consider 1" TigerFlex PVC hose. I would also install a checkvalve on the return and some union fittings to facilitate maintenance. Where are you located? If you want to see my gf's in-the-basement-sump-refugium setup, PM me.

 

-Rob

[dschflier]

Hey guys,

This is my first time responding to an inquiry but it sounds interesting. A couple of lessons I have learned. First: if you can, I would wire and install a new circuit. I ran a dedicated 20 amp cicuit for tank use only. This allows me to still use my standard 15 amp circuits but I have plenty of extra amprege on my new line and I can add sockets to the line as I need them. I use a single Iwaki 100 pump to run my 210 display/ my refugium and my 46 bowfront. Using one pump I feel reduces any heat problems and slightly lowers your electrical bill. as an example, on another 210 freshwater I have, I used to use two mag 5's and switched to one mag 9. It uses less power and if you have any head you get much more flow from the 9.

As one of the other members mentioned, I would also add shut off valves that disconect anywhere you think you may have to do maintenance. I say you can't have enough. You can also use the valves to adjust water flow.

For your sump if it is located near a basment drain I would use that to prevent flooding. I have about 60 gallons of sump and I drilled a bulkhead fitting towards the top of it and plumed it to a floor drain. Another thing which I found really allows me to enjoy my fish more and do less maintenance is to have it auto top off. I just installed the Kent marine top off and love it. I think all your ideas are good, I am just telling you some of the things I have discovered which make it more enjoyable for me. Hope this helps

[Larry Grenier]

Thanks folks :77: