Need help sizing plumbing for custom herbie overflow

[matt]

So I've got this little idea for this little tank. Who knows, I might make the tank slightly bigger...but for now let's assume it's the 5.5g I have handy.

 

I'd like to plumb this to a sump and since it will sit on my desk I want it dead silent. (I've considered going sumpless, but let's not go there with this thread)

 

I've been a glassholes user and drilled my main tank set up now. That overflow seems too audible for my current project...I want something similar, but silent given how close I'll sit to it. I've looked at Neto's build and it's great, but I want some surface skimming and don't want power loss to potentially expose corals.

 

So, I've worked up a little Herbie idea of my own. I have a small self-contained overflow box I could drill when I drill my tank. However, I'm not sure what the correct sizes are for matching bulkheads to pipe to elbows.depending on if I use slipxslip or slipxthread etc.

 

Can some plumbing pros help me here? I need to develop a shopping list.

 

http://www.wamas.org/forums/uploads/gallery/album_1180/gallery_2632921_1180_31718.png

 

Notes on pic:

So you can see the main siphon is planned for 1/2" pipe and I'll be finding a rather slow return pump to match flow rates. The saftey drain will be 3/4".  I've drawn the holes such that they make you think it's totally vertically oriented, but the drilled holes will likely be side by side and I may use PVC pipe to extend off the elbows for height adjustments. The overflow box is just over 2" fron to back and fittings inside the box will be tight. I'd like the bulkhead to be slip inside the box so I can pop off the elbows should I ever need to...or in case that helps during install.  I'm unsure if the external side of the bulkheads should be slip vs thread...thinking thread. I'm planning to use two washers like glass-holes does on their kits....so a bulkhead -> box wall -> washer -> tank wall -> washer - bulkhead nut.

 

Questions:

-Am I correct in assuming elbows, bulkheads, and pipe will all be the same size or does slip vs thread factor in and force me to 'mis-match' depending on if an elbow is femaie, male, or slip?

-Am I better off using certain size fittings given the sizes I've planned for the drain lines?

-Can I get away with using the same size hole saw for both bulkheads?

 

If you've read this far, thank you. If you can help...thank you very very much!

 

cheers

[matt]

Any advice out there?

[zygote2k]

I say to keep it simple- drill the 2 back corners and do the old fashioned overflow and return. Use the correct size return pump with a valve and you can make it dead silent.

How you build the area in the sump that receives incoming water is where most of the noise issues with tanks originate.

[matt]

I say to keep it simple- drill the 2 back corners and do the old fashioned overflow and return. Use the correct size return pump with a valve and you can make it dead silent.

How you build the area in the sump that receives incoming water is where most of the noise issues with tanks originate.

Thanks, Rob. But, can you define right-sized return pump? I'm going for low flow through the sump and the tank is quite small. Also, how easy is that really? My experience is with glassholes...so I do hear some trickling at the overflow. Appreciate your thoughts there...and if you have some on the original questions.

[Shoelace]

Questions:

-Am I correct in assuming elbows, bulkheads, and pipe will all be the same size or does slip vs thread factor in and force me to 'mis-match' depending on if an elbow is femaie, male, or slip?

-Am I better off using certain size fittings given the sizes I've planned for the drain lines?

-Can I get away with using the same size hole saw for both bulkheads?

 

1) As long as they are designated the same diameter (i.e. 1/2, 3/4, etc.) then they should fit.  Slips will fit slips and threads (NPT) will fit threads.

2) I think your sizes are reasonable for such a small system, but make sure you have safeguards against the 1/2" full siphon clogging up since it's so narrow - screening over the overflow box, cleaning out the gate valve, etc.

3) No, you will need different size hole saws for a 1/2 vs. 3/4 bulkhead.  You need enough glass around the bulkhead for the gasket to make contact.

 

The big thing I am worried about is about relative proportions.  If you do this in a 5.5G tank, your front to back is what, 6 inches?  If you think about the size of a 3/4 elbow, it's going to need about 2.5-3 inches to be able to fit in the box.  So then you will basically take up half of the width of the tank.  If you go up to a 10 gallon, this may be more reasonable.

 

I have done nanos with both GlassHoles and Herbies.  With low flow, the glassholes is relatively quiet, but a Herbie is basically SILENT.

[matt]

1) As long as they are designated the same diameter (i.e. 1/2, 3/4, etc.) then they should fit.  Slips will fit slips and threads (NPT) will fit threads.

2) I think your sizes are reasonable for such a small system, but make sure you have safeguards against the 1/2" full siphon clogging up since it's so narrow - screening over the overflow box, cleaning out the gate valve, etc.

3) No, you will need different size hole saws for a 1/2 vs. 3/4 bulkhead.  You need enough glass around the bulkhead for the gasket to make contact.

 

The big thing I am worried about is about relative proportions.  If you do this in a 5.5G tank, your front to back is what, 6 inches?  If you think about the size of a 3/4 elbow, it's going to need about 2.5-3 inches to be able to fit in the box.  So then you will basically take up half of the width of the tank.  If you go up to a 10 gallon, this may be more reasonable.

 

I have done nanos with both GlassHoles and Herbies.  With low flow, the glassholes is relatively quiet, but a Herbie is basically SILENT.

 

Thanks - I reached out to glassholes as I know they also sell plumbing fittings. they are telling me I can squeeze the 3/4" elbow and bulkhead in the 2.25" overflow box...so that's good. The 1/2" will fit too. The 5.5g is 8"+ from front to back...so I lose some space for about a third the length of the tank....but I get surface skimming and silence...or, at least, I should. :-)

 

I'm also thinking right now I can get away with a pvc ball valve on the 1/2" line...there is one for cheap at Lowes that has union-type fitting on each side that would make maintenance fairly easy.

 

I wish I could order just one glass hole saw, but ah well. At least with this setup I don't have to order special black silicone as the two bulkheads will hold the overflow box to the wall.

[Shoelace]

IMHE, ball valves do not work as well as gate valves. They are much harder to tune. I have never run a full siphon system on a pico, but I would imagine it might be a little finicky since there is less siphon pressure and it would be more sensitive to algae/slime build up etc.

[Shoelace]

The other thing I have seen is taking a black sheet of plexiglass, cutting teeth on the top, and just walling off a small compartment on one side of a 5.5 or 10G and putting the Herbie in there.

[Shoelace]

Never bought from this place, but their ideas seem cool:

 

http://www.badfishreefsystems.com/all-in-one-kits.html

[matt]

Never bought from this place, but their ideas seem cool:

 

http://www.badfishreefsystems.com/all-in-one-kits.html

 

That's interesting...never seen that guy before. Sounds like there could be some waiting involved, but it's certainly intriguing. A 10g kit seems to create something similar in display space to a 5.5...so similar lighting plans could work.