stevil December 16, 2005 Share December 16, 2005 The "Conscientious Marine Aquarist" offers this advice in pg 130: Substrates, calcareous rock and coral skeletons alone will not maintain a pH above 8.0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Lazar December 16, 2005 Share December 16, 2005 Just to clarify, when you say your RO/DI is below 7.8, do you mean before you add your salt mix, or after? I'm think when you add salt mix to pure RO/DI water, it should bring the pH of the mix to a relatively normal pH. Jon Update: My pH of my tank reads 8.2, and my RO/DI water is far below 7.8, I think... I don't have the capability to measure it, my FasTest kit turns the water yellow. 47792[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevil December 16, 2005 Author Share December 16, 2005 Just to clarify, when you say your RO/DI is below 7.8, do you mean before you add your salt mix, or after? I'm think when you add salt mix to pure RO/DI water, it should bring the pH of the mix to a relatively normal pH. 47799[/snapback] The water that reads below 7.8 is RO/DI water straight from the unit. My aged seawater has a SG of 1.024 and pH of 8.2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unninair December 17, 2005 Share December 17, 2005 If your pH is 8.2 why are you adding Baking Soda? I'd hold off adding anything until you see the pH drop (but then again - I'm no expert :D ). Unni Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevil December 17, 2005 Author Share December 17, 2005 If your pH is 8.2 why are you adding Baking Soda? I'd hold off adding anything until you see the pH drop (but then again - I'm no expert :D ). 47818[/snapback] Well, I guess that is my question... Does baking soda increase pH or does it provide a buffer against a decrease in pH? If my pH is OK in the tank and in the water I'm adding - should I just do the water change with no baking soda added? I think I need to go pick up an alkalinity test... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryL December 17, 2005 Share December 17, 2005 Well, I guess that is my question... Does baking soda increase pH or does it provide a buffer against a decrease in pH? If my pH is OK in the tank and in the water I'm adding - should I just do the water change with no baking soda added? I think I need to go pick up an alkalinity test... 47851[/snapback] yes you do. high alk = slow coral death IME. baking soda usually effects alk the most, it might change pH a little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unninair December 17, 2005 Share December 17, 2005 Baking Soda increases ALK and pH....... The pH will drop approx 0.2 points immediately following addition of baking soda to rise slowly over the next few hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevil December 18, 2005 Author Share December 18, 2005 I picked up the alkalinity test and my tank and my Alkalinity is 3.0 meg/L or 8.4 dKH. From what I understand I shouldn't need to add any buffer unless that drops below 2 meg/L. And, I shouldn't see a decrease in pH until Alkalinity falls to 0. Are both those statements true? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caribbean Jake December 18, 2005 Share December 18, 2005 just one clarification. Mix the Baking Soda with your RO/DI water and then pour into tank. DO NOT pour baking soda directly into tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhoch December 19, 2005 Share December 19, 2005 Also as a note, baking soda acts as a buffer, increases alkalinity, and DECREASES Ph (slightly)... Washing Soda (baked baking soda) increases alkalinity AND will increase PH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeltwayBandit December 19, 2005 Share December 19, 2005 I would advise that instead of just dumping soda (baking or washing) into your tank let it run for a month or two. Test your PH and Alk weekly and write the values down in the log that Jake recommended that you start. That way you can come up with an estimate of the demand from your system and buffer accordingly. I didn't have to start buffering my tank with soda for almost 12 months after I started it. It wasn't until the calcium loving critters (corals, snails, algae, etc.) started depleting the levels that I actually had to start adding anything. Obviously if your PH or Alk start to drop you can add a buffer, but don't just assume you need to add something because Bob Fenner recommends it. (Not saying I'm smarter than Bob, I just don't like to add anything unless I know I need it and PH and Alk are easy enough to test for that you can keep a handle on them til you know how much your system routinely needs.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevil December 19, 2005 Author Share December 19, 2005 Thanks everyone for the helpful advice. I downloaded a copy of RefCon Pro to evaluate and keep track of all my water parameters, livestock, maintenance etc.. It's pretty useful. As for any baking soda - I'm holding off adding any to my ageing seawater for now, but I'm glad I picked up the Alkalinity test nonetheless. I guess the moral of the story is "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikS December 19, 2005 Share December 19, 2005 I guess the moral of the story is "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". Yep, one of the two reefer's mantra along with "only bad things happen fast in a reef tank". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Stearns December 19, 2005 Share December 19, 2005 For PH adjustments on a new tank I would be carefull adding either baking soda or Washing soda- It is far simpler to add a ballanced additive such as pickling lime- Pickling lime- also referred to as Kalk is balanced calcium and Alkalinity - so that neither will get out of whack- It will function as a way of bumping up your PH. At first I would do like BB mentioned, add nothing for a while and if you determine that your PH is too low- well below 8.0 and your alkalinity is remaining fairly constant in the 3.0 range then I would add a bit of pickling lime in a cup of RO water- and add it as top off- let it sit several minutes and use the clear liquid after the remaining lime has settled in the cup. Many use a tablespoon per gallon of water as the mix- It is really not that important as the water in the cup will reach a saturation with the remaining lime settling out- use the pickling lime water until you have bumped back up your PH to 8.2 or 8.3. This should hold a new system for a period of weeks, esp if you are doing small water changes. And there is little useage of Calcium yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pez December 31, 2005 Share December 31, 2005 You should not *need* to add any supplements to new mixed salt water (except maybe for calcium for salts like IO). Also, regardless of the pH of RO water, it holds little to no buffering capacity, so a smallest amount of baking soda will cause a large change in pH. Please remember, baking soda causes a short term drop in pH, and a long term gain. Tweaking followed by immediate testing will yield erroneous results. Finally, if you want to tweak the chemistry of your water, use a balanced additive such as B-Ionic or Kalkwasser. That will ensure your calcium and alkalinity will remain balanced. Avoid the use of pure buffers (e.g. Baking Soda) or calcium supplements unless you know what you're doing and can manage the side effects (no implication that you don't know what you're doing, just trying to give advice) -Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Larry-T December 31, 2005 Share December 31, 2005 If you maintain your tank properly and do a partial water change every week, you shouldn't have to add any additives at all. There were people successful with a wide range of SW tanks before all of these additives were so popular. The "common knowledge" in the hobby was that regular water changes are the most important maintenance you can do, and that has never been proven wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pandora January 6, 2006 Share January 6, 2006 If you maintain your tank properly and do a partial water change every week, you shouldn't have to add any additives at all. There were people successful with a wide range of SW tanks before all of these additives were so popular. The "common knowledge" in the hobby was that regular water changes are the most important maintenance you can do, and that has never been proven wrong. 48664[/snapback] My thought on that is that yes, if everything goes well, it can be easy to maintain pH within good parameters, but that higher buffering capacity is more of a protectant if the unexpected happens... like a tank crash that was out of your control, for whatever reason. I maintain the KH but do not mess with pH directly. A side question... what is the difference between professional SW buffers and baking soda aside from cost? I have been using Kent Marine "Super dKH buffer" with some success, but there are no ingrediants on it (I would not have bought it myself, but came in a package with other things). It sure looks like baking soda (which is just sodium bicarbonate, but I understand only the bicarb affects buffering). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhoch January 6, 2006 Share January 6, 2006 It's been a while since I've seen you around these parts I don't know the difference, but if you are using the dKH buffer to increase alkalinity don't... goto the baking soda... Personally if you are going to do 2 part like that get some turbo calcium or dow flake, and baking soda. I've done that for a year+, but now I've got my calcium reactor going, and I could not be happier :2thumbsup: Dave A side question... what is the difference between professional SW buffers and baking soda aside from cost? I have been using Kent Marine "Super dKH buffer" with some success, but there are no ingrediants on it (I would not have bought it myself, but came in a package with other things). It sure looks like baking soda (which is just sodium bicarbonate, but I understand only the bicarb affects buffering). 49260[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikS January 6, 2006 Share January 6, 2006 professional SW buffers and baking soda aside from cost Not a thing - some will say they're more pure but given food grade for baking soda I question this. What is it? Sodium bicarbonate = PH down & ALK up sodium carbonate = PH up & ALK up Which does it do? (sodium carbonate = washing soda) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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