Vodka dosing

[STEVE]

I just set up my 300dd about 3 weeks ago....I started with bare BRS Eco rock, dosed Dr Tims ALL IN ONE followed with his Ammonia chloride (2oz) My ammonia finally came down to 0 about 5 days ago. My Nitrites are at 0, my Nitrates are at 100! I did a couple of 30 gallon water changes, but they had no effect on the Nitrates!...so I started dosing Vodka. I started with 1.4ml for the first 4 days and now I'm on day 5. Last night I turned the lights on the tanks (i have had them off for the last 5 days, I have nothing in the tank except rock) I have white stringy like stuff all over the rock! Is this a bacteria bloom? do I need to do anything since I have no living animals in the tank? Is this normal? Any help would be great.

[Origami]

White stringy stuff is bacteria, Steve. Just siphon it off for now if it's ugly.

[STEVE]

I was just on RC, the guys name is Tom, his screen name is TMZ... http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2134105

[ridetheducati]

There are other forms of managing nitrates as we previously discussed, but in this situation, consider "resetting" your nitrates with two 100% water changes. Conceptually, it will lower your nitrates to 0 ppm; tactically, it is very difficult to store 300g of salt water.

 

30g water changes every day over 30 days you could obtain 50 ppm.

 

150g water change every three days over 30 days you could obtain 15 ppm.

 

300g water change every three days over 6 days you could obtain 0 ppm.

Edited February 18, 2013 by ridetheducati

[STEVE]

Thanks Tony...I will be doing some major water changes tonight and tomorrow!

[ridetheducati]

What are you planning to do?

[basser9]

The worst thing to do in this hobby is chase nitrates with water changes it makes no since

and is a chore.

Just put a deep sand bed somewhere in your system either in tank or plumed in line

like in 5 gallon buckets.

Any tank can easily get to nitrates under 20 without ever doing water changes

with sugar sandbeds then a sulfur reactor can get them lower if needed.

I would never put any type of CARBON dosing on a tank without a large etss type skimmer

or a huge needlewheel you are asking for a slimy mess.

Your nitrates may take 2 months to get to there regular levels before you should address them.

Edited February 18, 2013 by basser9

[STEVE]

I have the Reef Octopuss 5000 XRO internal skimmer....I am trying to keep this tank as simple as possible. KISS This is my first venture into Carbon Dosing, so I'm learning as I go...I do not want DSB, nor do I want a fuge that house one. I run a barebottom tank now on my 90 system with great results, so I was hoping to do the same on my 300.

[Origami]

Nitrates will probably take care of itself once your biological filter matures, Steve.

 

It's probably not well known, but managing nitrates through water changes will lead to unbalanced calcium-alkalinity consumption. This is because the final step in converting nitrates to nitrogen gas returns one unit of alkalinity back to the water column.

 

That's a long-term view of the problem. In the short term, if you want to bring your nitrates down (despite the fact that you're not raising anything yet in the tank), you're not going to hurt anything by performing a few water changes.

[STEVE]

Yea, That seems to be the way I'm going to have to go Tom. Now I just need some larger water containers.

[GraffitiSpotCorals]

At least the tank finally started finishing its cycle! Do what has been said and change almost all the water. At least thats what I do when it cycles, it always bounces back to 20 or so but I just let it run for a few months with fish and let it drop on its own a little, then do another good waterchange and start putting in corals. I doubt carbon dosing is anything you should be doing right now... But I don't know much about it.

[monkiboy]

steve, i have a 175g container you can borrow for a bit if you like. i'm still putting together my 210 build and won't be using it for a while. if that'd be helpful to you, feel free to shoot me a PM. g'luck!

[STEVE]

steve, i have a 175g container you can borrow for a bit if you like. i'm still putting together my 210 build and won't be using it for a while. if that'd be helpful to you, feel free to shoot me a PM. g'luck!

 

Do you have any pics of it or a link I can look at. I might just take you up on that offer of borrowing it. Will you be around tonight after 9, or is that going to be too late?

[monkiboy]

sure, it's this one: http://www.plastic-mart.com/product/468/175-gallon-vertical-plastic-storage-tank-vt0175-31

 

if tonight after 9pm is best for you, i can make sure to be available to give the container to you up until 10pm.

 

please note the dimensions and that you have sufficient space in whatever vehicle you will be transporting it in, to ensure your trip is not in vain.

 

shoot me a PM to let me know if you'll definitely be coming or not and if so, i'll respond with my address and contact information.

[STEVE]

That is exactly what I'm looking for! I am going to measure the space and get back with you later on this evening....Thks

PM Sent

[davelin315]

Patience, your tank is 3 weeks old, let the cycle run before you start changing water. Your bacteria has not had a chance to colonize yet if you just started the cycle. The nitrate eating bacteria forms deep inside the rock so if you started with dry rock it hasn't even had a chance to form yet. Leave it alone and let it cycle. Water changes during a cycle only serve to prolong the process. By adding carbon you're delaying the growth of the bacteria you want in the rock as the aerobic activity is eating up all of the food.

[ridetheducati]

Patience, your tank is 3 weeks old, let the cycle run before you start changing water. Your bacteria has not had a chance to colonize yet if you just started the cycle. The nitrate eating bacteria forms deep inside the rock so if you started with dry rock it hasn't even had a chance to form yet. Leave it alone and let it cycle. Water changes during a cycle only serve to prolong the process. By adding carbon you're delaying the growth of the bacteria you want in the rock as the aerobic activity is eating up all of the food.

 

With Nitrates at 100 ppm and increasing approximately 25 ppm per week how are nitrates going to get processed. Live rock alone will process his nitrates?? How long will that take?

[epleeds]

Steve,

 

I let my tank run for 3 months with only bi-weekly water changes of 10%. As we would all say to Ryan. Slow down little buddy. You have a 90 that you can look at while the 300 cycles. Wait a few more months and then start testing.

 

I don't think I tested anything until about week 10.

 

Also, have you put a piece of live rock from your 90's sump to help colonize the dry rock?

Edited February 19, 2013 by epleeds

[Origami]

With Nitrates at 100 ppm and increasing approximately 25 ppm per week how are nitrates going to get processed. Live rock alone will process his nitrates?? How long will that take?

Yes, the live rock will process the nitrates. There are plenty of tanks that run bare bottom with only live rock. His rock is just under-populated now. The anaerobic bacteria population need to grow and they tend to grow a bit slower. He also needs to pull the GFO that he was running offline to allow phosphates into the equation as bacteria will need phosphates, nitrates and carbon to grow. Minimal carbon dosing is needed right now since he's got signs of a bloom. He doesn't have fish, corals, or any other higher forms of life in the tank, so there's really no need to rush things along. He could do a water change if he wanted, but there's no real rush to go to the expense until his tank has finished cycling.

 

Steve, if you're still ghost feeding the tank, cut that back by a half, too until you see the nitrates start dropping. There's no sense in pushing the aerobic bacteria harder. Give the anaerobes a chance to catch up.

[STEVE]

Thanks all.....I am not in a hurry, AT ALL. I guess when I saw the bacteria bloom, I kinda freaked out a bit. I have no problem not touching the tank right now, just letting it cycle, but I want to make sure what I have done and what I am still doing is the right thing.

 

I am going to throw a couple of water changes in there.

I have taken the GFO off line for right now (but will still test and watch them)

I will continue to dose carbon.

I will take a powerhead and keep blowing the bacteria bloom off the rocks so they can go into the skimmer and be reduced.

 

If I am missing anything, please chime in.

[ridetheducati]

Yes, the live rock will process the nitrates. There are plenty of tanks that run bare bottom with only live rock. His rock is just under-populated now. The anaerobic bacteria population need to grow and they tend to grow a bit slower. He also needs to pull the GFO that he was running offline to allow phosphates into the equation as bacteria will need phosphates, nitrates and carbon to grow. Minimal carbon dosing is needed right now since he's got signs of a bloom. He doesn't have fish, corals, or any other higher forms of life in the tank, so there's really no need to rush things along. He could do a water change if he wanted, but there's no real rush to go to the expense until his tank has finished cycling.

 

Steve, if you're still ghost feeding the tank, cut that back by a half, too until you see the nitrates start dropping. There's no sense in pushing the aerobic bacteria harder. Give the anaerobes a chance to catch up.

 

I hear ya. Steve may need to buckle up for the ride to grandma house. Anaerobic bacteria development takes some time.

[davelin315]

Thanks all.....I am not in a hurry, AT ALL. I guess when I saw the bacteria bloom, I kinda freaked out a bit. I have no problem not touching the tank right now, just letting it cycle, but I want to make sure what I have done and what I am still doing is the right thing.

 

I am going to throw a couple of water changes in there.

I have taken the GFO off line for right now (but will still test and watch them)

I will continue to dose carbon.

I will take a powerhead and keep blowing the bacteria bloom off the rocks so they can go into the skimmer and be reduced.

 

If I am missing anything, please chime in.

Steve, I would still advise doing noing except pulling the GFO. Remember, a tank and appropriate maturing require that you give all forms of life a chance to grow in a balanced environment. Vodka dosing is for when the tank becomes unbalanced after it is mature so by dosing now you're creating an imbalance down the line rather than helping your system out. You're essentially doing what a refugium would do, using the nutrients up and starving the things that depend on them, namely the bacteria that colonize your rock. To really get a mature tank part of the cycle is to go through ammonia, nitrite, then nitrates and then to go through the appropriate algae blooms until your system has reached a balance that will take care of any problems due to the balance you've reached by patiently allowing it to develop as needs arise. My feeling is that you'll create a situation in which you will have to continually dose carbon if you are dosing now since your system will become imbalances once you stop. Vodka only provides the sugar to your system, not the ammonia and nitrite that keeps the nitrogen cycle running.

[rocko918]

you kill me steve......

[rocko918]

Double lame post

Edited February 19, 2013 by rocko918

[basser9]

You might consider dosing vinegar with a little vodka as apposed to straight vodka

as it can lead to uncontrollable red slime.

At first it was though that dosing vodka would stop red slime[thats why i dosed it]

but it does just the opposite.......vinegar is better you just cant use as much of it.

 

Unless you have a very porous type of live rock which is hard to find today it is

very hard to setup a bb tank and not do massive water changes or carbon dose

to control nitrates.........more people then not cant do it and get frustrated.

You see post after post of leaving the hobby almost always because of nitrate/algae

issues that they cant control.They become a slave to there tank doing water change after water change

it never has made any sense at all to me.

KISS is to me sand...sand.....sand everywhere......no water changes and no nitrates.....it works everytime.

 

Vodka must be dosed with the lights on .........at least that what we all though 5 years ago.

Has the thinking changed about when to dose.

Something about the bacteria blooming in the water only with strong lighting.

You would dose to you get a bloom then cut back 10%.

Edited February 19, 2013 by basser9