Fishie August 27, 2012 Share August 27, 2012 Hi Neil it was good meeting with you yesterday...your 75g build out looks very promising. what lights are you going with? Vince at quantum reefs is great and i stop by there frequently as well. following this thread to see your progress as things mature Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nbgen12 August 28, 2012 Author Share August 28, 2012 Thanks Nick. I'm running a 6 bulb T-5 light which I'm really liking a lot. I'm real happy to finally have some coral in the tank. That GSP took and the radioactive zoas opened up really fast....I'll have to give the other little frag a week or two to see if it wants to cooperate. I think the watermelons and 2 tone blue will open up after another several days most likely. I had them stuck in an area of higher flow at first by accident, so I'm sure that didn't help them get comfortable in a new tank one bit. So far all 4 SPS frags are doing alright. The only one of the SPS I'm not sure about over the next week is the pink tipped yellow mille, since I came home from work today and it had fallen off the rock and one branch was buried in the sand. Other than that everything is looking really happy already! I'd love to come check out your tank sometime Nick, let me know if you have anything else you're trying to frag up down the road! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nbgen12 August 28, 2012 Author Share August 28, 2012 Just checked out your tank thread....very nice looking tank man. That is an awesome scape with the corals you've got. I'll have to get some pictures since I haven't posted new once after getting the fish and corals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishie August 28, 2012 Share August 28, 2012 cool...pics are always fun...glad to hear that most of the corals are doing ok...if the sps are fine...the rest should follow.. i had to redo some aquascape to make room for a clam and some new frags...but yea its fun.. ur welcome to come over anytime...shoot me a pm whenever and we can work out a time...i also have a 7+ inch frogspawn and a 10 inch hammer..noticed u were thinking of getting them later...u can come check them out for future reference too....or just come over and we can share pointers ...i always end up learning something new that way too., Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nbgen12 August 28, 2012 Author Share August 28, 2012 cool...pics are always fun...glad to hear that most of the corals are doing ok...if the sps are fine...the rest should follow.. i had to redo some aquascape to make room for a clam and some new frags...but yea its fun.. ur welcome to come over anytime...shoot me a pm whenever and we can work out a time...i also have a 7+ inch frogspawn and a 10 inch hammer..noticed u were thinking of getting them later...u can come check them out for future reference too....or just come over and we can share pointers ...i always end up learning something new that way too., Sounds great man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nbgen12 August 29, 2012 Author Share August 29, 2012 Here's some pictures...sorry about the phone pictures, I don't know how to take decent ones with the camera yet so here's some sub-par photos Yasha Goby Yasha 8:28 by nbgen12, on Flickr Purple Firefish Firefish 8:28 by nbgen12, on Flickr Tribal Blenny Tribal 8:28 by nbgen12, on Flickr Sky Blue Stag Sky blue stag 8:28 by nbgen12, on Flickr ORA Green Birdsnest ORA green birdsnest 8:28 by nbgen12, on Flickr Pink Tip Yellow Mille Pink tip yellow mille 8:28 by nbgen12, on Flickr Green Tip Pink Birdsnest Green tip pink birdsnest 8:28 by nbgen12, on Flickr Kenya Tree Kenya Tree 8:28 by nbgen12, on Flickr GSP GSP 8:28 by nbgen12, on Flickr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishie August 29, 2012 Share August 29, 2012 Looking good...like the yasha ...is there a pistol too ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nbgen12 August 29, 2012 Author Share August 29, 2012 Looking good...like the yasha ...is there a pistol too ? Haha, yeah there is....but I only saw him for about 30 second after I put him in the tank, and haven't seen them together or been able to locate him since. I guess that's the only problem having an aquascape with a million places to hideout. I think I might have to toss to skewer a little piece of raw shrimp and see if he will emerge from the rock structure for a little meaty food lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimlin August 29, 2012 Share August 29, 2012 i like the ora birdsnest. looking good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt August 29, 2012 Share August 29, 2012 neil, nice meeting you at frag fest. cool set up here! really dig your yasha....is it pretty outgoing? you make me think about starting a tank thread...i think i still have a few pics from when i drilled it too. but, following along here to see what *you* do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nbgen12 August 29, 2012 Author Share August 29, 2012 Thanks Jimlin! I agree on the ora birdsnest...looks nice and fluffy. Definitely nice to meet you matt! I like the yasha a lot, but he is not the most outgoing. I've got a lot of places for him to hide and he likes to take advantage of it. I can tell when he's hungry though, because when I come into the basement and he notices, he'll pop out and keep swimming until I get him stuffed haha. I would definitely do a little build thread if I were you...it's an easy way to have a log of things you've done on the tank, and gives you a spot to put pictures so you can see how things in the tank are growing. I didn't do a build on my first tank but I'm happy I took the time to do it on this one. I was pretty happy this morning to see several pods lurking around in my fuge I'd love to get a mandarin dragonet at some point in the next few months Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nbgen12 August 30, 2012 Author Share August 30, 2012 So, this is why you normally wait to get tougher SPS until you've had your tank running and know it a little better: I had been solely relying on my calibrated conductivity probe to monitor the salinity in the aquarium. The past few days it had been reading a little lower than I wanted (not much, just a tad). I added a little salt to the top off water a few days ago so it could slowly replace some of the evaporation with slightly salty water and raise the salinity slowly. Little did I know, I guess the conductivity probe was not correct, and I should have double checked with my refractometer, because when I put salt in the top off the salinity of the aquarium was actually perfect. I came home from work today to find the kenya tree a shriveled, and the sky blue stag acropora was RTN'd pretty bad. As I went down the checklist(since I had tested everything a day or two ago and the PH was fine) I decided to head for the refractometer. I had to blink a couple times because the specific gravity read around the 1027 mark, and I knew right away that was the problem. I slowly dropped the salinity over a couple hours, fragged up what was left of the blue stag, and shortly everything went back to normal(well close, the kenya tree is slowly swelling back up). Welp, now I know what my conductivity probe should be reading when the salinity is right on the spot. I'm just glad I didn't lose anything else.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nbgen12 September 3, 2012 Author Share September 3, 2012 Another mistake made while getting accustomed to the aquacontroller: came home from work for lunch and turned off the pumps to mess with a few things. I left in a rush, and while I turned all the pumps back to their normal settings, I accidentally flipped the ALK doser switch to ON rather than AUTO, so needless to say my sky blue staghorn and the pink tipped yellow mille had completely RTN'd by the time I got home, and I had a lot of water changing to do to fix the problem. This was the day after the salinity issue. When it rains it pours lol. The alkalinity was so high it tested off the chart with the salifert test, ever after a 30g water change. Somehow all the other coral made it through ok. Lesson learned about double checking the very important pumps. I got the parameters back in check(alk back down to 11 DKH) and did a little LFS tour, and checked out Petland, BRK, and F&F. I didn't purchase anything at the first 2 since they were the first stops and I wasn't sure how long I would be out. At F&F I picked up 9 frags. 2 decent frag plugs of zoas, and 7 frags of SPS. Here's the coral I have in the tank so far: Softies: - 1 purple mushroom - several different kinds of zoas/palys *I removed the kenya tree because I didn't want the toxins it gives off to irritate my sps. LPS: - 2 different frogspawns which are pretty similar and small pieces. One is metallic green and the other is a little more dull of a color - 1 purple and green hammer coral - 4 different pieces of closed brain corals, don't remember what the names were other than they looked cool SPS: - greenish/yellow pocillopora - purple pocillopora - teal looking millepora - orangish millepora - 2 acro pieces which need to color up some. 1 is a tri-color, the other has blueish yellow tips and looks great - VERY bright green birdsnest - birds of paradise birdsnest - green tipped pink birdsnest - ora green birdsnest - what looks like an orange montipora I'll get some new pictures posted in the next few days. All the new frags look very happy in the new home. Wish I could keep piling things in there, but I guess it's time for some observation over the next couple weeks and get some pictures up so I can keep track of growth and all that good stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nbgen12 September 10, 2012 Author Share September 10, 2012 Haven't gotten around to the pictures yet, but would like to add that I notice my tribal blenny itching his gill area a good bit, which is DEFINITELY not good. No spots showing up yet, he and the other fish are eating well. I will not be able to remove all the fish from the DT because I'm absolutely not willing to move the rocks just to catch the yasha goby and the firefish. I have a net just sitting in the tank now to hopefully get them comfortable with it, and plan on trying to net the fish in the next few days to move all 3 into a 20g hospital tank. Sometimes, if it weren't for bad luck, there wouldn't be any luck at all.... We will see what happens. For now I just plan on feeding the fish a few times per day and hope for the best. I can catch the tribal blenny since he's not skiddish at all, but the other two... If I can catch them all, I will treat the fish. If not, well, unfortunately the immune system will have to do it's best and we'll see what happens. Question: If all the fish stay in the DT and stop showing symptoms(as if the life cycle of ich has completed on the fish itself) , how long would it take for ich to be gone in the aquarium if it never re-infects the fish. Will it always be in the tank at this point unless I go fallow? Or after a bunch of months with no re-occurence, could it possible die out? I understand the going fallow part and the disappearance of ich from the DT, but what if you can't catch the fish to actually do this? Can't catch a break. This is a real bummer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surf&turf September 10, 2012 Share September 10, 2012 I have read 11 months, with no new additions to the system. The ich parasite gets weaker and weaker and finally goes away. Some say never, its always there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan S September 10, 2012 Share September 10, 2012 Neil, as you know, I went through a similar issue a few months back. I ended up going fallow for 12 weeks. It's my understanding that unless you go fallow for 12 weeks, ich will remain in the tank forever (Frank suggests 11 months, which could be totally accurate as well). Some fish will carry it all the time (cardinals, for example, seem to carry it without any side effects). So when you add some new fish, it will most likely get infected from your other fish. Thus, you must catch your fish. Get creative. Try a fish trap, try catching them at night while sleeping, etc. I don't know about Frank's 11 month figure, but would you really want to wait 11 months to add any new fish anyway? Some folks choose not to eradicate the ich, but to boost the fishes immune system and let them fight it on their own. If you go this route, I would look into the optimal food source to achieve this. Something with garlic and vitamins mixed in. Maybe Jan's food for example. I do not prefer this route myself, and the reason is this. In the ocean, there is ich, and fish do fight it off. However, the ich per volume of the ocean is teeeeeny tiny. And in our closed reefs, the ratio of ich present to fish is billions of times worse than the ocean. That's why ich is so much more deadly in our tanks than the ocean. Or at least, that's my conclusion from everything I know about it. My recommendation would be to go fallow for 12 weeks. Treat your fish in a QT; wait 12 weeks; add a UV if you don't have one already; then start over again. And be sure to QT all future fish before adding them to the DT. Regardless, we are here for you and wish you the best of luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nbgen12 September 10, 2012 Author Share September 10, 2012 I have read 11 months, with no new additions to the system. The ich parasite gets weaker and weaker and finally goes away. Some say never, its always there. I read the same thing somewhere on RC, but I also have a hard time believing it will disappear fully when fish are still in the tank. Tough decisions.... Neil, as you know, I went through a similar issue a few months back. I ended up going fallow for 12 weeks. It's my understanding that unless you go fallow for 12 weeks, ich will remain in the tank forever (Frank suggests 11 months, which could be totally accurate as well). Some fish will carry it all the time (cardinals, for example, seem to carry it without any side effects). So when you add some new fish, it will most likely get infected from your other fish. Thus, you must catch your fish. Get creative. Try a fish trap, try catching them at night while sleeping, etc. I don't know about Frank's 11 month figure, but would you really want to wait 11 months to add any new fish anyway? Some folks choose not to eradicate the ich, but to boost the fishes immune system and let them fight it on their own. If you go this route, I would look into the optimal food source to achieve this. Something with garlic and vitamins mixed in. Maybe Jan's food for example. I do not prefer this route myself, and the reason is this. In the ocean, there is ich, and fish do fight it off. However, the ich per volume of the ocean is teeeeeny tiny. And in our closed reefs, the ratio of ich present to fish is billions of times worse than the ocean. That's why ich is so much more deadly in our tanks than the ocean. Or at least, that's my conclusion from everything I know about it. My recommendation would be to go fallow for 12 weeks. Treat your fish in a QT; wait 12 weeks; add a UV if you don't have one already; then start over again. And be sure to QT all future fish before adding them to the DT. Regardless, we are here for you and wish you the best of luck. Thanks for the input ryan....I definitely did a good bit of reading about your trials and tribulations with this PITA parasite. And to answer your question about the 11 months....not a chance I can wait 11 months before adding more fish lol. Any other fish I add will definitely be QT'd in the future. I decided against it at the first stages because I only have 3 fish. Last weekend I picked up a 20g tank from petco to use for a good QT or hospital tank, so from here on out it will be used without hesitation. Part of me really want to just keep the fish well fed and minimize the stress since I have yet to see spots, since noticing the symptomatic itching about a week ago. All fish are still eating well. I think the firefish may also have it as I noticed it itch once or twice also. The other part of me really really hates watching the fish itch like that, because it is clearly not comfortable, and I have a hard time watching this go on when I could be doing something about it. The blenny should be an easy snag because he will eat out of my hand and isn't scared of much. The goby and firefish are a different story. I have my net sitting in the tank to make them more comfortable with its presence. We'll see what happens. Does anyone have a fish trap I might be able to borrow in case I can't net them in any of the ways Ryan stated? I would be eternally grateful I appreciate the input Frank and Ryan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishie September 10, 2012 Share September 10, 2012 I believe that ich is kinda like a common cold...with good husbandry, helthy tank environment and a fish that eats well ...they will overcome it. Get a UV sterilizer, cleaner shrimp and a neon goby and they should keep things in check in addition to it. you can go the FOWLR route but sometimes u can accidentally reintroduce it again without even knowing the fish has ick or a piece of lr /coral or even an invert... i have in past before adding a QT tank (which i now think is a must) gotten fish that were QT'd by some very good stores and they appeared healthy and when they came in ...sometimes i would see 1 or 2 rub on a rock on occasion ...then they were ok. ive never had an outbreak though...so i can't comment on that...but i believe if the tank is healthy and the fish is not stressed (good protective coat and a fat belly) they will overcome ick hmmm...ive also heard that raising the tank temp to 82ish will help speeden the ick process ...as they cycle faster since ick is one of the more common parasites...u can do a 1-2 min freshwater dip and then put in a clean qt...dont doa freshwater dip and put in ur DT...they will be stressed ...very little protective coat due to the dip and the pathogens and ick can get through that thin coat fast and infect the fish....i do a freshwater dip and put in a clean qt just so as to no introduce anything seen or unseen into the dt. my qt period post that depending on fish behaviour varies ...but i try and pick healthy specimens so they go in as little as 5 days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nbgen12 September 10, 2012 Author Share September 10, 2012 Nick - thanks man....i think i may just feed the fish well and see what happens over the next several days while i crank the temp up a bit. What is a good product to improve the slime coat on fish? Sent from my MB865 using Tapatalk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surf&turf September 10, 2012 Share September 10, 2012 <br class="Apple-interchange-newline"> Marine Fish & tap water conditioner. The only marine water conditioner with the healing power of Aloe Vera. Developed for use with a protein skimmer: will not cause foaming. Removes chlorine, chloramines and ammonia from tap water. Scientifically proven to reduce stress. Heals damaged tissue and promotes tissue regeneration. Enhances slime coat. Reef safe. Use when netting or handling fish, or when not pre-filtering water.This is what I use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nbgen12 September 15, 2012 Author Share September 15, 2012 ...I'll have to invest in a litte stress coat. I'm beginning to debate whether to keep running the 29g sump I have with an Aqua C Remora Pro skimmer, or if I should step it up to the 40b I have or a sump/fuge and get a better skimmer geared towards SPS. All my parameters are looking good except the high mg(trying defeat bryopsis at the moment). Even though I have low nitrates, is it possible there are too many organics in the water harmful to the SPS, which is keeping them from completely looking happy? I'm curious to hear some people's thoughts on the low nitrate but higher organics in the water which would be bad for SPS, or any experience anyone has with SPS and Aqua C Remora Pro skimmers.... I'm aware there mayyyy not be the amount of feedback I'm hoping for do to the fact most people were smart and went with big enough sumps with in sump skimmers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimlin September 15, 2012 Share September 15, 2012 i like the idea of raising the temp which is what i did with my fresh water fishes (raised to 86), but would raising the temp in a tank full of corals would kill some of the corals right? I also like the use of uv to keep the numbers of ick in check if you are unable to catch all the fish. with the uv, i prefer to get a large unit with a small pump. the longer the water is exposed to the light (slower flow) the more stuff it will kill. good luck. I believe that ich is kinda like a common cold...with good husbandry, helthy tank environment and a fish that eats well ...they will overcome it. Get a UV sterilizer, cleaner shrimp and a neon goby and they should keep things in check in addition to it. you can go the FOWLR route but sometimes u can accidentally reintroduce it again without even knowing the fish has ick or a piece of lr /coral or even an invert... i have in past before adding a QT tank (which i now think is a must) gotten fish that were QT'd by some very good stores and they appeared healthy and when they came in ...sometimes i would see 1 or 2 rub on a rock on occasion ...then they were ok. ive never had an outbreak though...so i can't comment on that...but i believe if the tank is healthy and the fish is not stressed (good protective coat and a fat belly) they will overcome ick hmmm...ive also heard that raising the tank temp to 82ish will help speeden the ick process ...as they cycle faster since ick is one of the more common parasites...u can do a 1-2 min freshwater dip and then put in a clean qt...dont doa freshwater dip and put in ur DT...they will be stressed ...very little protective coat due to the dip and the pathogens and ick can get through that thin coat fast and infect the fish....i do a freshwater dip and put in a clean qt just so as to no introduce anything seen or unseen into the dt. my qt period post that depending on fish behaviour varies ...but i try and pick healthy specimens so they go in as little as 5 days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunWyrm September 15, 2012 Share September 15, 2012 Raising the temp is only effective for freshwater ich, they are different strains and that much rise in temperature will not effect saltwater ich as easily as it does freshwater. It will have a negative effect on the fish before the ich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nbgen12 September 15, 2012 Author Share September 15, 2012 Hmmm well this brings me to another question....what is a good UV sterilizer that everyone uses? There is such a wide range of prices for them.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onux20 September 15, 2012 Share September 15, 2012 I run a 40W aqua uv. Oversized for my tank but I like it a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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