yauger April 17, 2012 Share April 17, 2012 I was wondering if anyone out there has a Ecotech Radion and is willing to give me a crash course on to how to use it. I have the software and have been playing with it but as with everything new I feel like I need an "expert" on how to properly control this device. if you can help that would be awesome. couple questions that have been popping in my head as of late: Color balance: has anyone else removed the red color from turning on? Red really messes with my eyes and I really didn't like the coloration so I turned is off. Is this something I should turn back on? Night mode: did anyone else think that night mode meant "moon lights" cause I sure as heck did, and when all the lights shut off I was surprised. $750 spent and no moonlights? total time light cycle: is 12 hours from ramp up to ramp down to off too long? the default has it at 12 hours starting at 6 am and shutting off at 6pm, again with no moon lights during the night mode. curious is anyone else has a really nice cycle they would like to share. Brightness: now since I don't want everything in my tank to "melt" I started the intensity at 20% I'm wondering if this is too low, and if so does this grown algae or even kill corals due to lack of light? how long should I wait between increases? anyways, yeah I was just curious if anyone had experience with this... Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yauger April 17, 2012 Author Share April 17, 2012 btw these lights are a real treat if you like glowing colors. my tank is 100% all zoathids and palys so everything glows from a mile away. I must say if you've never seen a glow in the dark tank check out these lights... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trockafella April 17, 2012 Share April 17, 2012 Umm, how bout a picture Noob.! Lets see the glowstick.! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan S April 17, 2012 Share April 17, 2012 (edited) Color balance: has anyone else removed the red color from turning on? Red really messes with my eyes and I really didn't like the coloration so I turned is off. Is this something I should turn back on? Night mode: did anyone else think that night mode meant "moon lights" cause I sure as heck did, and when all the lights shut off I was surprised. $750 spent and no moonlights? total time light cycle: is 12 hours from ramp up to ramp down to off too long? the default has it at 12 hours starting at 6 am and shutting off at 6pm, again with no moon lights during the night mode. curious is anyone else has a really nice cycle they would like to share. Brightness: now since I don't want everything in my tank to "melt" I started the intensity at 20% I'm wondering if this is too low, and if so does this grown algae or even kill corals due to lack of light? how long should I wait between increases? I am not a guru, but I can offer some answers/thoughts to a few of your questions. 1. What size tank do you have? What light did you have before? Do you have any SPS or just the zoanthids? If just zoanthids, you can run the radion at 100% intensity. Mine are at 100% and the zoanthids grow like weeds. The lower starting intensity is meant for SPS tanks. I've never read about zoanthids melting under 100% intensity (unless your tank is 12" deep and the radion is 4" from the water or something). 2. Ecotech is going to release a lunar mode, they just haven't yet. They've had trouble getting the leds to run at low intensities needed for lunar lighting. It should come in a future firmware patch. In the mean time I use a current usa lunar light, shown here. I only run it for a few hours after the radions turn off, that way the tank can be 100% dark for most of the night. 3. 12 hours is generally what most are using for the radions, and natural mode would work fine for a zoanthid tank. If you want more control, then I would definitely recommend artificial mode. I can take a screenshot of my settings for you tonight, but generally I run the lights for 8 hours at 12k during the day, then 4 hours at 100% royal blue at night. I use royal blue at night because the glowing, as you mentioned, is crazy awesome. I love seeing the tank look like a black light is over it in the evenings. I chose 12k because it's 100% intensity of all 5 color channels. I figure this would be optimal growth and coloration. I am sure other kelvin channels would work just fine for your tank, whether it's 10k, 14k, or 20k, etc. 4. The red and green led question. I wondered the same thing, but don't think it looks funny. I think it adds a warm color to the tank. Either way, of the 34 LEDs on the fixture, only 4 are red. I don't think using or not using them would hurt anything. Ecotech has stated they tested the lights with and without green and red, and found including them was optimal for coral growth and for better viewing. So as long as they aren't full of crap and the testing and trials were legit (which I am sure they were), that's good enough for me. But again, if you don't like them on, I think you'd be fine turning them off. That's part of the real value of the radion, you can customize it in a way that T5 and MH folks can't. Edited April 17, 2012 by Ryan S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yauger April 17, 2012 Author Share April 17, 2012 Umm, how bout a picture Noob.! Lets see the glowstick.! yeah sure as soon as I find a guru in taking pictures of a glowstick without having the whole picture washed out. I love how you always call me a noob broski, brings back old memories of the nightmare mistakes I made in this hobby! but hey the best thing I have learned is it is always better to ask and learn than to suffer on your own and waste time and money! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trockafella April 17, 2012 Share April 17, 2012 I find it amusing to call you a noob bc you taught me a bunch when I was a noob. You taught me how to properly glue my first frags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikS April 17, 2012 Share April 17, 2012 Color balance: has anyone else removed the red color from turning on? Red really messes with my eyes and I really didn't like the coloration so I turned is off. Is this something I should turn back on? Here are a few quotes from Dana Riddle from last year: "I can say with a high degree of certainty that red wavelengths are detrimental to zooxanthellae pigment content and health." "Dr. Kinzie published his experiments with red light and zooxanthellae in the late 20th century. He realized red light was a regulating mechanism for either the number of zooxanthellae and/or the content of their photopigments (chlorophll a, c2, peridinin, etc.). In laymen's terms, this regulation is referred to 'bleaching'." And, "other peer-reviewed works have confirmed coral growth is greatest when corals are maintained in conditions of deficient (natural) amounts of red light." Dana Riddle calls red "teats on a boar hog" = good enough for me, especially if it bothers you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan S April 17, 2012 Share April 17, 2012 Here are a few quotes from Dana Riddle from last year: "I can say with a high degree of certainty that red wavelengths are detrimental to zooxanthellae pigment content and health." "Dr. Kinzie published his experiments with red light and zooxanthellae in the late 20th century. He realized red light was a regulating mechanism for either the number of zooxanthellae and/or the content of their photopigments (chlorophll a, c2, peridinin, etc.). In laymen's terms, this regulation is referred to 'bleaching'." And, "other peer-reviewed works have confirmed coral growth is greatest when corals are maintained in conditions of deficient (natural) amounts of red light." Dana Riddle calls red "teats on a boar hog" = good enough for me, especially if it bothers you. And on the flip side of the coin... Sanjay Joshi concluded that the red spectrum of a radion is very similar to the red spectrum of a Ushio 400w 14k MH bulb or a Radium 400w 20k MH bulb. He stated: "This is one of the few LEDs with green and red LEDs, in an effort to provide a wider coverage of the light spectrum. The addition of the red leds help improve the color rendition especially for the red/pink corals as well as fish. Also, Chlorophyll in corals has an absorption band in the red region, hence it is speculated that the addition of red will enhance photosynthesis. Figure 2b shows how this compares to the Metal Halide lamps. It is interesting to note that the amount of Red spectrum is quite comparable to that of Radium." "As seen from the data, there are significant spectral differences between the LED spectrum and those of the most popular MH lamps. The LEDs tend to have more output in the blue regions 400-500 nm range, while lacking in the warmer regions of the spectrum. This could explain why the aquariums tend to have a "flat" look when lit by LEDs. Lack of the red spectrum results in corals and fish with red color to look lack lustre. Lack of a broader spectrum and missing quantities of output at wavelengths to promote a more full spectrum is often a concern cited with LEDs, and it is obvious when comparing the spectrums to metal halides. As seen from the newer generation of LEDs [Radions] there is an attempted to address this by providing more choice of colors (and channels of control) to allow tweaking of individual channels to enable users to fine tune the look of the aquariums and provide the ability to have one light fixture with the potential to satisfy a wide range of users." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yauger April 17, 2012 Author Share April 17, 2012 Thanks Ryan,, yeah Z's & P's can definitely melt under high light with sudden change. I know cause I've done it a couple times in my hobby past... thats good news about the moon light coming out in the future but that doesn't really help right now, which is a disappointment. but oh well. thats good news about the light cycle but I'll give 12 hours a go and if things seem to look iffy I'll drop it to my standard 10. As for the color red it's for the birds and I guess my eyes are sensitive to color cause I can see it. guess I'll run it without and see how things go! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan S April 17, 2012 Share April 17, 2012 Thanks Ryan,, yeah Z's & P's can definitely melt under high light with sudden change. I know cause I've done it a couple times in my hobby past... thats good news about the moon light coming out in the future but that doesn't really help right now, which is a disappointment. but oh well. thats good news about the light cycle but I'll give 12 hours a go and if things seem to look iffy I'll drop it to my standard 10. As for the color red it's for the birds and I guess my eyes are sensitive to color cause I can see it. guess I'll run it without and see how things go! I started my radions at 40%. Then increased by 5% per week. That was ecotech's recommendation for a tank with SPS. I'm sure your zoanthids would be fine with that too. I used to grow zoanthid's under PC lighting. I'd bet 20% intensity on radions is more than PC lights anyway. As for length - 12 hours is the LED "norm" because of the ramping up and down time. I think the general rule of thumb as to 6-8 hours of 100% intensity still applies to LEDs like it would for T5s or MHs, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yauger April 17, 2012 Author Share April 17, 2012 I find it amusing to call you a noob bc you taught me a bunch when I was a noob. You taught me how to properly glue my first frags. fun times... back in the day I remember you teaching me a class on how to build pillars! do you remember that tall column tank you had? hahaha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yauger April 17, 2012 Author Share April 17, 2012 Here are a few quotes from Dana Riddle from last year: "I can say with a high degree of certainty that red wavelengths are detrimental to zooxanthellae pigment content and health." "Dr. Kinzie published his experiments with red light and zooxanthellae in the late 20th century. He realized red light was a regulating mechanism for either the number of zooxanthellae and/or the content of their photopigments (chlorophll a, c2, peridinin, etc.). In laymen's terms, this regulation is referred to 'bleaching'." And, "other peer-reviewed works have confirmed coral growth is greatest when corals are maintained in conditions of deficient (natural) amounts of red light." Dana Riddle calls red "teats on a boar hog" = good enough for me, especially if it bothers you. I curious about the opinions on this matter greatly differs from one to another. I guess the mother of all proof would be to see a tank with and without. however you will always have the nay sayers commenting that the conditions from one tank to another differs due to salt, equipment, husbandtry habbits, ect ect... arg! I'm going to go with the fact it bothers my actual vision... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan S April 17, 2012 Share April 17, 2012 I curious about the opinions on this matter greatly differs from one to another. I guess the mother of all proof would be to see a tank with and without. however you will always have the nay sayers commenting that the conditions from one tank to another differs due to salt, equipment, husbandtry habbits, ect ect... arg! I'm going to go with the fact it bothers my actual vision... Did you try with and without the green leds too? Notice any difference visually that way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan S April 17, 2012 Share April 17, 2012 Here are a few quotes from Dana Riddle from last year: "Dr. Kinzie published his experiments with red light and zooxanthellae in the late 20th century. He realized red light was a regulating mechanism for either the number of zooxanthellae and/or the content of their photopigments (chlorophll a, c2, peridinin, etc.). In laymen's terms, this regulation is referred to 'bleaching'." I curious about the opinions on this matter greatly differs from one to another. One reason is that Dr. Kinzie's research was in the 1900s. Sanjay's was last month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikS April 17, 2012 Share April 17, 2012 (edited) I curious about the opinions on this matter greatly differs from one to another. I guess the mother of all proof would be to see a tank with and without. however you will always have the nay sayers commenting that the conditions from one tank to another differs due to salt, equipment, husbandtry habbits, ect ect... arg! I'm going to go with the fact it bothers my actual vision... I would doubt we're anywhere near having concrete answers to the question. Heck look at how corals change under relatively similar lights in different tanks. I know I have some "purple grape" has never been truly purple under either MH or LED for me???? I'd bet there's a handful of really shallow water corals that like/want/need some red........but given how little it penetrates & how many of those do we have? The last part seems key, if it bothers you.....turn it off One reason is that Dr. Kinzie's research was in the 1900s. Sanjay's was last month. Not to put too fine a point on it but Sanjay's real expertise is what lighting produces (PAR, spread, spectrum).............Dana's expertise is coral husbandry (well really zooxanthellae - requirements DNA, tolerance, etc), I'm not aware of many who have his experience. Edited April 17, 2012 by ErikS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan S April 17, 2012 Share April 17, 2012 The last part seems key, if it bothers you.....turn it off Agreed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trockafella April 17, 2012 Share April 17, 2012 "hence it is speculated that the addition of red will enhance photosynthesis" Key word there is specualted. Which by definition means- <LI style="LIST-STYLE-TYPE: decimal">Form a theory or conjecture about a subject without firm evidence. Ummm... Im not sold.! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yauger April 17, 2012 Author Share April 17, 2012 "hence it is speculated that the addition of red will enhance photosynthesis" Key word there is specualted. Which by definition means- <LI style="LIST-STYLE-TYPE: decimal">Form a theory or conjecture about a subject without firm evidence. Ummm... Im not sold.! blah blah blah, you're still not sold on the fact that Bigfoot is a myth! The green color in the tank really doesn't annoy me as much as the red, maybe thats related to my years in the Army... ODE Green! on a serious note if adding red means the difference of an additional 1 -2 polyp growth a month verses just 5-7 I think I can survive. and yes some of my colonies are growing that fast! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yauger April 17, 2012 Author Share April 17, 2012 One reason is that Dr. Kinzie's research was in the 1900s. Sanjay's was last month. I with erik on this one, age of a study is irrelevant according to qualifications and experience. I mean we still follow the principle of relativity even though that was studied ages ago... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trockafella April 17, 2012 Share April 17, 2012 Personally I think the Reds are more for asthetics, which makes sense. I wouldnt bank on them growing corals faster. If the red bothers you and you can turn it off, then do it. Btw, you need to come by sometime!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yauger April 17, 2012 Author Share April 17, 2012 oh and Travis you have to check out my reef, I think you would change you mind about LED's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trockafella April 17, 2012 Share April 17, 2012 blah blah blah, you're still not sold on the fact that Bigfoot is a myth! The green color in the tank really doesn't annoy me as much as the red, maybe thats related to my years in the Army... ODE Green! on a serious note if adding red means the difference of an additional 1 -2 polyp growth a month verses just 5-7 I think I can survive. and yes some of my colonies are growing that fast! Bigfoot is real. His name is Rob.! Apparently bigfoot supports LEDs too.! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan S April 17, 2012 Share April 17, 2012 on a serious note if adding red means the difference of an additional 1 -2 polyp growth a month verses just 5-7 I think I can survive. and yes some of my colonies are growing that fast! I don't think red is necessarily about faster growth, I think it might be a coloration issue? Reds/Oranges/Pinks will color up differently with or without red leds. Or that's what I've been reading at least. (You could always run the red leds during the day when you are at work, and have them turn off when you get home). And my zoanthids have been growing fast as well. Wait until you raise your intensity! I got 4 polyps of "candy apple reds" from BRK a month ago. I have at least 12 polyps now. And the florida rics that I got 6 weeks ago, most were 1 polyp, are all 2-3 polyps now. I can't say I've seen the same growth from my SPS frags, which all look the same as when I got them though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yauger April 17, 2012 Author Share April 17, 2012 Personally I think the Reds are more for asthetics, which makes sense. I wouldnt bank on them growing corals faster. If the red bothers you and you can turn it off, then do it. Btw, you need to come by sometime!! no doubt, will do... I wanna give some frags as a thank you anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yauger April 17, 2012 Author Share April 17, 2012 (You could always run the red leds during the day when you are at work, and have them turn off when you get home). you can do this? if so I need to lean how to do this. even though I still wouldn't turn red colors on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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