bluefin March 22, 2012 Share March 22, 2012 I have been lurking on the WMASsite for over a year and I'm finally able to set up a tank that I have beenplanning for quite a while. I'm building a 120 gallon reef tank systemand have been spending a significant amount of time on researching the variousdesigns that I could use to create the system. I want to make sure I have avery solid design to start with and will tweak it as need once I get movingalong. I have come up with a number of different ideas on how the system couldbe installed and not sure which is the best for optimization of the system. Thetank will be in the basement and I was planning on putting all of the equipmentbehind the tank in my unfinished laundry/storage room. I would like to put thetank in the wall but that is not an option at this point. I have includedrough designs for the layout of the system and would like some feedback on it.I'm not sure which design is the best but was leaning toward the vertical lay out option. Iwanted to make sure I'm going down the right road before I make the drawing toscale and place all of the equipment in the correct place with plumbing linesdetailed out. Are the sumps and refugium inthe correct order? Are the sumps and refugiumsized correctly? How much vertical distance doesthe water from the tank need (distance wise) before it enters the sump orrefugium? Is there an issue with the water not falling to the floor as itenters the sump? Thanks Dave Vert Option Tank 2.pdf Horz LayoutTank Option 1.pdf Top Down.pdf Two wall layout.pdf One wall Equipment Layout.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygote2k March 23, 2012 Share March 23, 2012 you probably won't need a calcium reactor until you have a calcium demand that calls for it. The refugium acts as the best phosphate reducer so you wont need a po4 reactor. The fuge should be at least 50% of the total volume of water for max efficiency. Run supplemental equipment with supplemental pumps. Run the tank with a properly sized return pump that will deliver enough water to the tank, fuge, skimmer feed, and sump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluefin March 23, 2012 Author Share March 23, 2012 I knew some of the equipment would not be necessary untilthe tank matures and or requires it. I want my plan to include the supplementalequipment to ensure I had space for them. The fudge should be able to 50% ofthe total tank volume and sump? What about the sump size? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygote2k March 23, 2012 Share March 23, 2012 (edited) sump should be large enough to hold skimmer, pumps, mechanical filtration, and excess water for when the power goes out. Sump can be same size as the 'fuge. Fudge is something to eat. 'Fuge is short for refugium. Carbon or phos reactors are relatively small- about the size of an R/O canister each. Calcium reactor is fairly large. Ozone generator hangs on the wall above and away from everything. Edited March 23, 2012 by zygote2k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldReefer March 23, 2012 Share March 23, 2012 Where are you located? You could probably pick a lot up looking at a couple setups. You have some great ideas, and I like the way you are thinking this through, but there is almost more information that I can post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluefin March 23, 2012 Author Share March 23, 2012 I live in Vienna and would sure like to see some systems andI don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad March 23, 2012 Share March 23, 2012 I agree with Bill, almost too much to write. You are more than welcome to see my setup if you want to stop by. We have many of the same interests, btw. Here are a couple of big picture things that I notice at a glance: 1) I like that your stuff is well thought out. Great job there and keep up the research. 2) Make sure you are arranring things to make them easily accessible. Hard to perform maintenance usually means not completed maintenance. In my experience, this means larger than required and short sumps to give lots of room to maneuver and work. If you have additional vertical or horizontal space, use it (My system is ~18" from the wall to make the return section of the sump more easily accessible. 3) The way I count it, you will have ~5 pumps for each piece of peripheral equipment. Usually a single larger efficient pump with a manifold will simplify operation (though not setup). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluefin March 23, 2012 Author Share March 23, 2012 It is a lot information to review and I would like to see yoursystem. I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldReefer March 24, 2012 Share March 24, 2012 I have had a system very much like what you are setting up. There are great possibilities, I have to head out to Asia tomorrow so let me put a couple of ideas out there. First, think vertical. There is no reason you can't have a fuge above your display tank. It can be in a cabinet above the display or offset behind it in the utility room wall ( above the sump).. The fuge can drain into the display tank with lots of nice plankton. I did this with a 90 gallon above my 180 display. It is easy once you think outside the box. Consider keeping your RO/DI storage all the way up by the ceiling in the utility room. Let it flow down to your salt mixing chamber and then down into your sump. Keep the sump off the floor. If the water level of the sump is above the level of the sink drain (maybe a foot) then water changes can be made effortless. All you have to do is place a bulkhead at the sump waterline with a pipe that drains down to the sink. Imagine this.... You drain water out of your RO/DI storage and let it drain down into your salt mixing container. When it is time to do a water change, just drain the new salt water into the sump. As the sump level rises, the excess old salt water overflows through the bulkhead into the sink. You just open avalve and walk away. Gravity is a beautiful thing, All it takes is a smart design and you have a blank slate to work with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldReefer March 24, 2012 Share March 24, 2012 It is a lot information to review and I would like to see yoursystem. I like the idea of using one pump and a manifold to control allof the peripheral equipment. Any issues with redundancy with a set up likethat? The manifold idea is really great. I didn't take that idea far enough in my latest system. I didn't anticipate pellet reactors and seperate GFO/Carbon reactors. Regarding the failure mode with a manifold. That is a very good question. I travel internationally about half of the time, so I am all about failures and redundencies. The fact is there is just no way around it, if your return pump fails you are in a very bad place. The least of the worries will be the reactors and such. Since it is such a critical component, I do not hesitate to throw money at it. I am a huge fan of BlueLine and PanWorld external pumps. I have never met anyone who had one of those fail (of course somebody will jump in now). Yet, I still keep a spare used pump (identical) with all the fittings attached, so that it could be swapped out by my wife in an emergency. I just stalk the for sale boards for years and pick up things like that when the price is right. I used to use mag pumps, but they would lime up all the time. If you ever got behind on maintenance, or if your Ca reactor got out of hand, they would lock up. I clean my BlueLine once a year and it doesn't even seem to need that. If you are worried about reliability, consider 2 part dosing instead of a Ca reactor. I used to have lots of problems with the bubble rate drifting or the media clogging. BRS dosing pumps are incredibly reliable, and if they do fail they just stop working. They will not overdose your tank or make a flood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluefin March 25, 2012 Author Share March 25, 2012 I have had a system very much like what you are setting up. There are great possibilities, I have to head out to Asia tomorrow so let me put a couple of ideas out there. First, think vertical. There is no reason you can't have a fuge above your display tank. It can be in a cabinet above the display or offset behind it in the utility room wall ( above the sump).. The fuge can drain into the display tank with lots of nice plankton. I did this with a 90 gallon above my 180 display. It is easy once you think outside the box. Consider keeping your RO/DI storage all the way up by the ceiling in the utility room. Let it flow down to your salt mixing chamber and then down into your sump. Keep the sump off the floor. If the water level of the sump is above the level of the sink drain (maybe a foot) then water changes can be made effortless. All you have to do is place a bulkhead at the sump waterline with a pipe that drains down to the sink. Imagine this.... You drain water out of your RO/DI storage and let it drain down into your salt mixing container. When it is time to do a water change, just drain the new salt water into the sump. As the sump level rises, the excess old salt water overflows through the bulkhead into the sink. You just open avalve and walk away. Gravity is a beautiful thing, All it takes is a smart design and you have a blank slate to work with. I had thought about putting the refugium above the tank but I'mnot sure I have the ceiling height to do that. I will take a look and see if itwould fit in the utility room where all of the equipment would go. Good idea on the RO/DI storage! Many tanks have the sump and refugium combined with excellentsuccess. I separated them thinking that a larger refugium would provide alarger bio mass to filter the "dirty" water from the tank? Not sure if this holdstrue? Should the main drain return into the sump or the refugium first?I was having the water flow into the refugium first thinking it would be a goodway to filter the "dirty" water first before it headed into the sump forskimming and retuning to the tank? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluefin March 25, 2012 Author Share March 25, 2012 Regarding the failure mode with a manifold. That is a very good question. I travel internationally about half of the time, so I am all about failures and redundencies. The fact is there is just no way around it, if your return pump fails you are in a very bad place. The least of the worries will be the reactors and such. Since it is such a critical component, I do not hesitate to throw money at it. I am a huge fan of BlueLine and PanWorld external pumps. I have never met anyone who had one of those fail (of course somebody will jump in now). Yet, I still keep a spare used pump (identical) with all the fittings attached, so that it could be swapped out by my wife in an emergency. I just stalk the for sale boards for years and pick up things like that when the price is right. I used to use mag pumps, but they would lime up all the time. If you ever got behind on maintenance, or if your Ca reactor got out of hand, they would lock up. I clean my BlueLine once a year and it doesn't even seem to need that. If you are worried about reliability, consider 2 part dosing instead of a Ca reactor. I used to have lots of problems with the bubble rate drifting or the media clogging. BRS dosing pumps are incredibly reliable, and if they do fail they just stop working. They will not overdose your tank or make a flood. Redundancy is something that I'm trying to build into the systemand was leaning toward external pumps. They seem to be a good solution if youhave the space.I like the idea of having a having a pump prerigged in the eventof an emergency that someone could swap it out. Spare fittings and extra pumpsare critical it seems. Plus someone you teach how to deal with the tank and themajor emergencies that could occur and have detailed instructions for them tofollow or video to refer to. I had someone else tell me their CA reactor is finicky and theywere going to switch over to dosing. I like the failure response of the dosing pumps.Something that I will review! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Ivers March 25, 2012 Share March 25, 2012 (edited) I have a 120 In-Wall in my basement with many other things tied in....come over and check it out whenever you'd like. Mine wraps around the wall, but the sump is underneath. It's a constantly expanding system. p.s. I run my whole system off of a Reeflo Dart with a (IMO) pretty well designed manifold. Edited March 25, 2012 by Max Ivers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluefin March 25, 2012 Author Share March 25, 2012 I have a 120 In-Wall in my basement with many other things tied in....come over and check it out whenever you'd like. Mine wraps around the wall, but the sump is underneath. It's a constantly expanding system. p.s. I run my whole system off of a Reeflo Dart with a (IMO) pretty well designed manifold. I appreciate the offer and would like to check it out. Let meknow what would work for you. I tried to send you a PM but you inbox was full. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Ivers March 25, 2012 Share March 25, 2012 I appreciate the offer and would like to check it out. Let meknow what would work for you. I tried to send you a PM but you inbox was full. Oops, sorry about that. I cleared my inbox so try again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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