Fuge help

[clearsky57]

Hi:

 

First I apologize if these questions are the sort of thing that are asked/answered in multiple threads and I haven't seen them yet...

 

that being said.

 

I have a 35gal (i think) fuge that was under a 75 and the way it was configured before I tore the tank down was that the drain from the tank seemed to be split, and water drained to the sand area (first compartment) and the other part of the drain went to the compartment of bio balls.

 

Was there a reason for this splitting of the drain? my thinking was the amount of water was too much force so they split it to the balls..

If this is so, doesn't the split sort of kill the idea of the drain water going to the sand area first?

 

Also, I am planning on adding some more bio balls to the system, but wonder, a: should I possibly put some eggcrate to the bottom so that the balls are not sitting on the fuge bottom? b: should there be some sort of deflection plate ie. plexiglass with perforated holes all over to sit above the bio balls to slow down the trickle going over them? would this be of benefit?? going back to the drain issue..... I think I have read in differnt threads that some folks use a "sock" to cut down on the drain flow... my thought on that is if one uses a sock it has to be checked regularily so as to keep it clean so no blockages... could you use a deflector plate on the sand portion as well to break the flow??

 

thanks

 

david

[onux20]

They were probably split in order to control (decrease) the flow thru the fuge.

 

Bioballs have kinda fallen out of favor. Most folks have tehm removed and replaced with live rock rubble or have gone to a deep sand bed in the fuge area of the sump or ina differnent container (zygote uses a rubbermaid-like container). If you are gonna do them anyway, I dont see a problem with them being on the bottom.

 

The filter sock used more to catch detritus in the water column for manual removal. And yes you will need to clean them regularly.

[clearsky57]

Ok.... excuse my ignorance here... the fuge has 3 chambers 1st: sand with the baffle just 1/2" from top sealed at bottom

 

2nd: (about 5" wide) where the bio balls were, and a slight mabye 1/2" space at bottom

3rd: where the return pump was and I am going to put the protein skimmer in this one?

 

with splitting the water coming in from the tank, does the fact that water bipasses the sand chamber and goes directly to the bioballs, (or rock) does that

diminish the working of the fuge?

now assuming the chamber where the bio balls were, if i put rock(live?) in here how much is reccomended, and it stays live with just a trickle running over it?

 

also,,, i have read about mangroves in the sand chamber??? good, bad, up to the person???

[steveoutlaw]

No worries. The whole thing is your sump. The fuge section is where the sand bed is. You don't want water flowing through the fuge too fast or it won't do it's thing.

[clearsky57]

Aright..... NOW I'm getting conflicting ideas... (guess that's common, as there are many ways to "SKIN A CAT" as it were

 

At a local fish store to me, they don't really think the fuge type system works, rather, they simply use a "flow through" system, where they place way more

 

importance on the bio balls, and leave out the sand (fuge?) area..

 

 

Their reasoning, was that they had gone the fuge route but found more troubles than it was worth and when they increased the volume of bio balls area, (they continued adding chambers with bio balls) it increased their systems working design exponansially(sp?)

 

When I described my fuge that I got with the tank I purchased, they couldn't figure out why the first chamber wasn't bio balls,,, and that for the tank water to go to the fuge (sand) part first, then over the bio balls defeated the working purpose of the refugium??

 

Again, I am on information overload... between what I have been reading, in books, and on the forum and what folks have been telling me, I am about ready to

 

simply bag this tank, and put the darn thing in mothballs.....

 

someone please help me make sense of this.... I truly want to be successful with the start up of my first marine tank and was hoping that I could leap over all the start up blues by finding out what worked for different people...

 

I am not a sheep, by any means, and do love to experiment, but if something is tried and true, I will go that route until I feel the urge to play around....

[Prunfarm]

Well, for fish only systems, I think bioballs are ok and many still use them. Reef - different story. I have been very successful, as have others with the fuge/skimmer route. Just to help us help you, please advise what you plan on keeping in the tank. Don't fret, you'll get pleny of help on this site.

[Chad]

I think part of your confusion is coming from the fact that the term "fuge" or "refugium" is used interchangeably to address several different things.

 

In the purist sense of the word, a refugium is simply a place to protect something (I will address in a second) from the display tank. Most aquarists are protecting a specifically grown macro algae and copepods, so that is what I will discuss.

 

Fast growing macro algae is chosen (chaetomorpha is the most common these days, but there are other types that are also appropriate) because as it grows, it draws nutrients out of the water (mostly nitrates and phosphates, but also some heavy metals). The overgrowth is then removed and discarded (or given to a fellow aquarist) to permanently remove the nutrients from the system.

 

Copepods also breed and reproduce well within the macro algae (really this is just a nice perk of a macro-algae filled refugium) and provide supplemental, well balanced nutrition to hungry corals and some fish.

 

Separately, some folks add a "remote" deep sand bed to the refugium, (Note: deep sand beds are a hotly debated topic within the reefing community regarding their long term benefit and maintenance...). When added, it should be greater than 6" in depth and seeded (and perhaps reseeding) with substrate dwelling creatures. Deep sand beds allow oxygen free areas of the sand bed to harbor anaerobic bacteria that performs the final stage of the nitrogen cycle by converting nitrate to nitrogen.

 

So basically, a macro-algae based refugium depletes nitrates and phospates from an aquarium. When added, a deep sand bed depletes nitrates.

 

You will notice that both the refugium and deep sand bed reduce products of other processes that generate nitrates. These processes occur on all aerobic surfaces in the tank, most of our tanks have a significant amount of porous rock, sand and other surfaces.

 

Usually, there is plenty of surface area for these processes to occur within a porous rock-based reef. However, in some cases (e.g., heavily stocked predator tanks, fish only tanks with decorations rather than rock, breeding tanks, dealer tanks, and a bunch of other applications) there isn't enough surface area for these processes to occur, so the more dangerous products of ammonia and nitrite can build up. In these cases, the addition of surface area (e.g., bio balls) is necessary for proper filtration to occur. Also, usually in these cases the buildup of nitrates is not as important and can be controlled using other means (i.e., not a refugium or deep sand bed).

 

Long story short: Your fish produce ammonia; your live rock, sand and other porous surfaces reduce ammonia, produce and reduce nitrites, and produce nitrates; and macro-algae based refugiums and deep sand beds reduce nitrates and phosphates. Bio balls are not necessary within a reef tank (although bio balls do have specific uses).

 

Hopefully that helps a little, each of the subjects I mentioned could pretty easily have a book written on the subject.

[smallreef]

Unfortunently it ends up in trial and error for many people how they set up their sump with a refugium..

I had a 150g FOWLR and in my sump after my filter sock had a refugium area of macro algae, seemed to work decently for me though I was a little bit overloaded in the bio-load area with fish..

It all depends on what you are doing and what you like that you have seen.

I am not a fan of the Deep Sand Beds being that from 'what i have read' it takes alot of sand to make a difference and reseeding with beneficial dwellers is difficult... but i have not tried it..

[trockafella]

Just keep it simple, especially to begin. Chad gave great advice above, with a perfect explanation of how the process works. Take your bioballs and donate them to that LFS. Your sump/Refugium doesnt need to be complex or complicated at all. I would recommend posting a picture of your set up, especially the sump. Also, where are you located, maybe another member could take a look at it for you. Lots of really nice and helpful people on here (though I am not one of them). Your doing the one of the most important things right now, asking the questions and taking advantage of a great resource.

[Chad]

...though I am not one of them...

 

LOL, I don't know that is true!

[Rosco's Reefs]

No worries. The whole thing is your sump. The fuge section is where the sand bed is. You don't want water flowing through the fuge too fast or it won't do it's thing.

 

I'll say two things: don't worry about getting it perfect...three months after you build it, if you are like me, you will want.to change it.

 

Second, all the research I've done agrees with Steveoutlaw about a slow flow but I've never understood why. If someone could speak to that I'd appreciate it. Thx

[smallreef]

What id does is gives the macro or DSB time to actually absorb and give nitrifying bacteria time to work.. Though there is a difference is slow and TOO slow.. you just have to find out what rate works best for your particular system..