Why is my pH 8.6+

[davelin315]

I'm no chemist, but if it's in the basement is there anything in your home that could be producing ozone? Could that also be something throwing off your levels? Do you have anything in your home that could be producing ozone or are you using it? I know that my UV sterilizer used to produce the smell of ozone and I have a UV unit on my HVAC.

 

Just trying to grab at straws here.

[Fazio92]

I'm no chemist, but if it's in the basement is there anything in your home that could be producing ozone? Could that also be something throwing off your levels? Do you have anything in your home that could be producing ozone or are you using it? I know that my UV sterilizer used to produce the smell of ozone and I have a UV unit on my HVAC.

 

Just trying to grab at straws here.

 

 

Not that i know of and i haven't smelt any ozone in the house.

[Origami]

Got some results for you, Anthony.

 

I ran three tests immediately after opening your water sample, which was packaged with no air on top of it. The tests were:

 

Alk

pH (using a Salifert test kit and color chart)

pH (using a Pinpoint pH meter & probe - just calibrated)

 

The good news is that your Salifert alk test kit is reasonably accurate. I measured using a Hanna alkalinity checker and came up with 9.8 dkH.

 

The pH taken with the Salifert test kit read out around 8.0. This test was performed within 2 minutes of opening the sample. The resolution of the Salifert kit is fairly low, but the color chart was definitely in the range of 8.0 rather than the next color up, which is 8.3.

 

I then calibrated my pH probe using pH 7 and pH 10 solutions. I then cross checked with pH 4 solution and was satisfied that the probe response was reasonably linear. Then I measured your sample. Ten minutes had elapsed since I opened the sample. The measurement I got was 8.15, which I think was in line with the Salifert test kit reading.

 

It's possible that the sample shifted pH since you handed it to me, but given that it was packed in a clean container with no air over the top, I thought it would remain reasonably stable. Assuming that it had, my suspicion is that something is wrong in the meter that you're using or calibration fluid / process. At the very least, it's worth cross-checking the probe reading that you're getting with another test kit.

 

If these readings are accurate (they do seem to make more sense), then your pH is just fine.

[Fazio92]

Got some results for you, Anthony.

 

I ran three tests immediately after opening your water sample, which was packaged with no air on top of it. The tests were:

 

Alk

pH (using a Salifert test kit and color chart)

pH (using a Pinpoint pH meter & probe - just calibrated)

 

The good news is that your Salifert alk test kit is reasonably accurate. I measured using a Hanna alkalinity checker and came up with 9.8 dkH.

 

The pH taken with the Salifert test kit read out around 8.0. This test was performed within 2 minutes of opening the sample. The resolution of the Salifert kit is fairly low, but the color chart was definitely in the range of 8.0 rather than the next color up, which is 8.3.

 

I then calibrated my pH probe using pH 7 and pH 10 solutions. I then cross checked with pH 4 solution and was satisfied that the probe response was reasonably linear. Then I measured your sample. Ten minutes had elapsed since I opened the sample. The measurement I got was 8.15, which I think was in line with the Salifert test kit reading.

 

It's possible that the sample shifted pH since you handed it to me, but given that it was packed in a clean container with no air over the top, I thought it would remain reasonably stable. Assuming that it had, my suspicion is that something is wrong in the meter that you're using or calibration fluid / process. At the very least, it's worth cross-checking the probe reading that you're getting with another test kit.

 

If these readings are accurate (they do seem to make more sense), then your pH is just fine.

 

 

Tom,

 

thanks for taking the time to check that out. I will pick up new reagent tomorrow and see what happens. I also have 2 new unopened backup probes just to verify. If it's not my pH being the problem for my tanks demise, what else could it be? Still not completely ruling pH out until i test again at the source in time, but the sample i gave you should not have changed and should be valid, so we'll see tomorrow.

 

-Anthony

[Origami]

What kind of meter do you have? Are you testing in an area where there might be a source of electromagnetic interference that might impede taking good readings from the probe? What calibration fluids are you using? High pH calibration fluids (pH 10) are notorious for shifting downward over time if exposed to air (Thus giving you a higher than expected reading). I couldn't even be sure that my fluid hadn't drifted. That's why I cross-checked it with the chemical test just to get some confidence in the reading.

 

I sympathize with your losses upon moving. I had a huge loss myself when we moved this past July. I'm pretty comfortable blaming my overly aggressive species-cleansing efforts targeting "Outlaw" palys and the resulting toxins for my SPS losses (80-85% - devastating) but I'll never know for sure.

 

Do you have a frag tank set up , or can you try putting a frag in the system to see how it fares?

[Fazio92]

What kind of meter do you have? Are you testing in an area where there might be a source of electromagnetic interference that might impede taking good readings from the probe? What calibration fluids are you using? High pH calibration fluids (pH 10) are notorious for shifting downward over time if exposed to air (Thus giving you a higher than expected reading). I couldn't even be sure that my fluid hadn't drifted. That's why I cross-checked it with the chemical test just to get some confidence in the reading.

 

I sympathize with your losses upon moving. I had a huge loss myself when we moved this past July. I'm pretty comfortable blaming my overly aggressive species-cleansing efforts targeting "Outlaw" palys and the resulting toxins for my SPS losses (80-85% - devastating) but I'll never know for sure.

 

Do you have a frag tank set up , or can you try putting a frag in the system to see how it fares?

 

 

I am using Tunze 7 & 9 reagents, but they may just as well have turned on me. the probe is not near anything, in open flow, no bubbles area. I don't have a frag tank as i have a 300gal tub of rock and skeletons now Again, the only things i lost were SPS and clams, but zoas, palys, mushrooms, and nems do not look happy at all. LPS look great I guess i could put a frag in, but i can still tell everything else is still not fairing that well. The only thing at this point that i can think of is that i have red planetaria (flatworms) and there's a possibility that hundreds have been dying off at a time (though i don't notice it as you can usually smell it, plus i run carbon) making the water toxic. I have at this point also conducted multiple 50-75% water changes so i feel that would rule that out.

[sportzfish]

What about phosphate removal media? I have achieved drastic results when changing out my phosphate removal media and kalk in my top off at the same time.

[Fazio92]

What about phosphate removal media? I have achieved drastic results when changing out my phosphate removal media and kalk in my top off at the same time.

 

 

i don't use phosphate media, just chateo and zero phosphates. i also haven't run kalk in my ATO for 2 months.

[davelin315]

If your readings are in fact off on the probe and you were trying to combat it with CO2 then it's possible you were dropping your pH well below where you wanted it. If your readings were 8.6 and in reality it was 8.1 and you were dropping it down to 8.3 on the probe then 7.8 would be your pH and that could have contributed to the demise of your corals and things not looking good right now. Take out a coral skeleton and see if it's especially brittle or if the corallites seem to be wearing away. When my pH dropped down low after I lost my corals and took my reactors off line the coral skeletons melted away over time and became brittle and fell apart.

[OldReefer]

I am almost certain it is the probe calibration Anthony. They drift to the high-side. I have had mine drift up to 8.6 and then re-calibrate down to 8.1. Good luck.

[Fazio92]

Well, problem solved. What's an easy way to destroy a very large well established SPS reef over the course of a week... Using pH calibration fluid that went bad. Tom, thanks so much for checking my pH which really made me rethink my probes (both brand new) and reagent solution (now proven bad). Once i recalibrated the probes with the new solution, i dropped it in my tank and the reading was 8.15 (not 8.45 which it was reading prior) and i knew that was it (exactly what you tested yesterday Tom). So, everything makes sense now, being that my bad pH readings were causing the CO2 to run full time, significantly lowering my tank pH and turning my tank into a CaRx with once live coral. Because of the readings i did not add Kalk to my ATO which could have saved me despite the bad readings. Huge lesson learned and i hope others can learn from my mistakes. I'm feeling better now that the cause has been found and corrected and hope to regrow my once living reef. Thanks for all the support, another testament to the benefits of WAMAS outreach and knowledge. Thanks again!

 

-Anthony

[Origami]

I've got buckets of reactor media now, as you do. For different reasons, but I still know the feeling. Anyway, glad that we could clear the way to get you going again.

 

Hopefully others can gain something from this, too. Calibration solutions, especially, higher pH solutions degrade when exposed to air. Their pH begins to drop and, if you calibrate against it, will cause false high readings. Keeping an older style chemical test around can help you cross-check measurements when things just don't add up.