AcePuck35 September 12, 2011 Share September 12, 2011 Is there a rule of thumb, a chart or equations that concern water flow in an aquarium? This is a two part question, first dealing with the amount of water (gph) needed to cycle through the DT into the sump and back to the DT. Second the (gph) output needed in the DT for water current? I am setting up a 40g breeder with a 20g sump. The return line from the sump will be approximately 58 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saltwaterworx September 12, 2011 Share September 12, 2011 I would suggest 5-700 GPH for the return pump. Possibly attaching a ball valve to regulate flow. 1" for overflow line. 3/4", or 1/2" for return line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vadim September 12, 2011 Share September 12, 2011 usually recommended amount that you want your tank cycled is 9-12 times per hour. My 75 gallon tank is cycling at about 10 times per hour. Usually when you buy a pump there will be a graph on the back of the box telling you how many gph it'll do depending on your length of return and intake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AcePuck35 September 13, 2011 Author Share September 13, 2011 Saltwaterworx- can you give me an example of why regulating the flow is beneficial? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygote2k September 13, 2011 Share September 13, 2011 all of these questions can be answered easier if you got to RC and use the "Head Loss Calculator" Having a valve on the return line- better to use a gate valve than a ball valve- allows you to adjust the flow based upon how much water is flowing through the overflow. Overflow size more or less determines the amount of flow your tank can achieve. If you have valves on the drain and return, you will be able to fine tune the drain/return system for optimum flow and noise level. The old rule of thumb was to have 10x tank volume turnover in an hour, but that was based upon flow through a typical wet/dry filter. In tank circulation is far more important than amount of water through the drain/return system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saltwaterworx September 13, 2011 Share September 13, 2011 Sure.. Somewhat piggybacking on what Zygote said. Not just regulation, but unions and ball valves prove to be quite convenient when plumbing an aquarium (noise levels, overflowing, pump removal/ maintenance). A stronger pump dialed down a little could be used if you happen to upgrade later as well. For example, say Ive used MAG12s(1200gph) on different gallon 6' tanks. 150g-210g The 150 may not need as much push as a 210, but the next size down is 950gph. I could just regulate the flow with the ball valve. I do see where gate valves are cool, but I like to go toward union/ball valve combos. Definitely pay attention to head loss as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygote2k September 13, 2011 Share September 13, 2011 Sure.. Somewhat piggybacking on what Zygote said. Not just regulation, but unions and ball valves prove to be quite convenient when plumbing an aquarium (noise levels, overflowing, pump removal/ maintenance). A stronger pump dialed down a little could be used if you happen to upgrade later as well. For example, say Ive used MAG12s(1200gph) on different gallon 6' tanks. 150g-210g The 150 may not need as much push as a 210, but the next size down is 950gph. I could just regulate the flow with the ball valve. I do see where gate valves are cool, but I like to go toward union/ball valve combos. Definitely pay attention to head loss as well. Assuming you use 3/4" return line on the setup mentioned above- 3' vertical, 3' horizontal, 90, union, gate valve, swing check valve and a Mag 12- you're only gonna get 785gph. Assume the same tiny overflow box in the corner of most tanks, and you'll find that the box can flow about 600 gph, so you'll use your gate valve to turn down the Mag 12. The Mag 9 would be a more appropriate pump. People have a tendency to put huge pumps on systems that weren't designed to flow large amounts of water. If you truly want to use the full capabilities of the return pump, you need to bump the drain size up to 1.5" and the return to 1". This should be an industry standard instead of the 1"/ 3/4". Just by raising the return line to 1", the Mag 12 will now push 985gph, but you still have to compensate for the inadequate overflow box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveoutlaw September 13, 2011 Share September 13, 2011 I would recommend against putting valves on your drain pipes. I know a number of stories where algea or snails or a fish got stuck on the valve when it was partially closed. Then you get a nice overflow of the tank and water all over your floor. Better to purchase a return pump matched to your overflows. You still may have to put a valve on it to fine tune, but you don't have to worry about a snail ruining your day. Also, you should note that with some pumps when you restrict the flow it puts more of a strain on the pump and can wear it out more quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypertech September 13, 2011 Share September 13, 2011 Valves on drains work great. But you should have an emergency drain as a backup when doing so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygote2k September 14, 2011 Share September 14, 2011 Valves on drains work great. But you should have an emergency drain as a backup when doing so. What's an emergency drain and where would it go? I've never heard of this method. If you valve off the drain, you certainly don't close it up very much- it's really only there to adjust for noise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowieReefer84 September 14, 2011 Share September 14, 2011 What's an emergency drain and where would it go? I've never heard of this method. If you valve off the drain, you certainly don't close it up very much- it's really only there to adjust for noise. The third pipe in the beananimal. Slightly higher than the "in use" stand pipes. In case the water level rises due to the first two drains getting clogged it will handle the increased water... It's my understanding this emergency drain is the main difference in a herbie vs a beananimal overflow. Make it easier to adjust the beananimal because you don't exactly have to match a single pipe. You get the main siphon close to handling the water draining with the second pipe taking the last little amount. The third is simply increasing the safety factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypertech September 14, 2011 Share September 14, 2011 I do a herbie and it isn;t that hard to adjust so long as you use a gate valve. One short drain with the valve on it. Close until water level is several inches above pipe in overflow. No air in pipe - no noise. Emergency drain is set above this water level and cut short in the sump to make noise. Should something get into the main drain and restrict it, water will rise to emergency drain and go to sump making noise and alerting me to check the main drain. Works great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saltwaterworx September 14, 2011 Share September 14, 2011 +1 on 1.5" overflow becoming standard. Especially on larger tanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AcePuck35 September 14, 2011 Author Share September 14, 2011 Can someone explain the herbie and beananimal overflows? I did not realize there were different types of overflows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowieReefer84 September 14, 2011 Share September 14, 2011 Can someone explain the herbie and beananimal overflows? I did not realize there were different types of overflows. http://www.beananimal.com/projects/silent-and-fail-safe-aquarium-overflow-system.aspx The herbie is the same thing but WITHOUT the 3rd (emergency) drain. The bulkheads can be through the bottom or out the back, the idea is the same. There should be a gate valve on the main drain (siphon) near the bottom. Adjust to match output of return pump... Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AcePuck35 September 14, 2011 Author Share September 14, 2011 So the siphon is basically used because it is quiet? And if you just have a drain where the water is flowing down a pipe it will most likely be loud unless you have a large enough pipe? If noise was not a factor what is the danger to just having a single drain (a straight PVC pipe) going to the sump and a straight return pipe from the return pump? The only thing I can think of is if the drain pipe gets clogged and the return pump stays constant then the tank could overflow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AcePuck35 September 15, 2011 Author Share September 15, 2011 What size power head should I use in a 40 breeder? How many gph? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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