Refugiums

[emissary]

So I've been doing saltwater for several years now but haven't done a refugium yet....and I'm about to have one. Wondering what you guys put in yours. Good macro seems like cheato, feather caulerpa. Regular live sand? What's this "miracle mud" about?

 

Also...

 

I've been reading a bit about dissolved oxygen content in the "real reef." As you'd expect available dissolved oxygen peaks in the afternoon as the algae has had some time to produce some. Given that this swing happens in the ocean -- does it still make sense to run refugium lights with an intverted cycle? This'll help stabilize pH and dissolved oxygen... but does it make it MORE like the real reef, or less like it?

 

Pointers to good reads would be greatly appreciated.

[steveoutlaw]

I can't point you to any good reads on it other than on RC or about.com. I have regular live sand in mine and some small pieces of live rock for the pods to colonize. I'm getting ready to put some chaeto in soon. I'm running the lights on the same cycle as the tank lights.

[Lee Stearns]

Great questions. Make for a long post- sorry.

I think that the refuge we keep is a bit un-natural in many facets- one, I guess, would have to think of it as the tidal flats area of a small bay/inlet. I am sure you would have more natural O2 swing in those areas when the water was not coming in from the ocean as in a tide- but for the most part our mixed reef creatures come from reefs, some at reef crests, some corals are from the quieter flats, and some from the wall in front of the reefs down to many meters. Those from the wall and crest have fairly stable water parameters because the ocean is so large and contantly mixing. I beleive we add our refuges on the reverse lighting cycle to be able to counter the swings in PH and O2 so that our total system with its turnover from main tank to fuge will be more constant and like the wall/reef area we are trying to duplicate. We can not even closely replicate the churn/water movement where some of the crest sps corals grow.

On the fuana you want to put in there- my mind has changed a bit over time- to where most peole want pods and lots of them- Free more natural food for the tank- and in thier various stages some for the corals too- I used to have several pepermint shrimp in my fuge which did a good job of clearing aptasia which try as we might gets imported and in the fuge finds a great place where our lack of attention allows them to grow and be the launching point for our main tanks. Good plan- worked well on the aptasia- my fuge would be aptasia free in only a few days. One downside--- I did not feed my fuge- The shrimp got whatever migrated there from the overflow- ther survivived but I am certain were avid hunters of pods as well- I have now tanken the peprmints and all crabs etc out of the fuge- It is a snail and pod haven now- but if pods are your goal then I know of no better way than to feed phytoplankton- if you feed them they will come! I do grow chaeto only in there because of too many experiences with all the calurpas going a sexual. I have a seperate 29 G tank not plumbed into the system- but where I always do water changes with the used main tank's throw away water. This keeps the two tanks in relative sync from a water parameters stand point. In this tank I grow out grape and feather calurpa that allow me to feed my tangs occasionally. I have also found that the RR overflows where we hide our durso's is an excellent pod and grape calurpa location- I can usually grab a small hand full from there to feed as well- You realy have to pay attention to that area for both unhindered aptasia and bubble algea growth- I have been tempted to try a peprmint in ther but would have to put some king of screening over the drain line and would be constantly cleaning it- For the most part I have tried to keep my tank simple. One more item I am experimenting with in the fuge is some of the very small 1/4-1/2 inch feeder shrimp. 1/2 inch is adult size- I have set up a 2.5 gallon tank under my cabinet with just an air stone and some chaeto and placed 90 of these white feeder shrimp that Live aquaria have in it.- I will post later on how well they do in the propogation- I also placed about 10 in the fuge of my main system to see if they would multiply there. This was a simple addition to growing phyto where I am always bubbling about two 2 liter bottles from a running air pump anyway with a cheapo walmart clip on light on the same timer as my actinics to the main tank.

Having your fuge lighting off cycle with your main lights is a very simple way to stabilize a bit more the PH & O2 swings that might otherwise occur- and keeping pods there definitley is a benefit to the rest of your main tanks inhabitants.

[emissary]

Those from the wall and crest have fairly stable water parameters because the

ocean is so large and contantly mixing.

 

  I beleive we add our refuges on the reverse lighting cycle to be able to counter the swings in PH and O2 so that our total system with its turnover from main tank to fuge will be more constant and like the wall/reef area we are trying to duplicate. We can not even closely replicate the churn/water movement where some of the crest sps corals grow.

 

I've heard this argument before, but I'm not sure I really buy it. Yes the "occean's" always mixing... but if you're going to count on water from the atlanic ocean (where it's light) affecting water in the pacfic where it's dark... I think that's a bit of a stretch. I'd expect the pH (maybe) and dissolved oxygen (certainly) to drop significantly (the latter more than the former) after it's been dark for several hours. Am I just misunderstanding? It would also have to do with the currents in the region I suppose...

 

But yeah, so there's the fore-reef that we'd have a hard time reproducing especially wrt to the crashing waves. Then there's the reef on the other side of that bank... the flats, atolls, etc that we do a better job reproducing. With these areas, I'd expect fluctuations to be the norm. Eliminating these fluctuations I think would affect growth, spawning, etc. But then I'm just sort of thinking about it -- I don't have empirical data at my fingertips.

have also found that the RR overflows where we hide our durso's is an excellent pod and grape calurpa location- I can usually grab a small hand full from there to feed as well- You realy have to pay attention to that area for both unhindered

My tank's just drilled. The overflows as such are just going to be 90degree elbows.

[fishface]

I hav eonly been doing this for a year, and in Jan I setup a second tank to move a pair of maroon clowns into, since the female was dumping anything new (frags and small corals, naturally) head first into the sand.

 

I modified a 20 long and added mud, culearpa which is temporary and some Cheato. And a handfull of grudge from the ReefTank and a pair of Seabunnies to add their relentless spawning to the water column. They are all over the place now.

 

It my case, I wanted to use mud because it has a greater positive impact on stability, and adds trace elements back into the tank. The Eco website states that you should NOT use a DSB when you setup a refuguim with their mud. I'm using the Carib sea mud, but I don't have a DSB, and when I did this, I had the choice since I was setting the tank up from scratch. I think the Eco wesite list faq's and recomendations on how to implement their system.

 

FF

[dhoch]

So I've been doing saltwater for several years now but haven't done a refugium yet....and I'm about to have one. Wondering what you guys put in yours. Good macro seems like cheato, feather caulerpa. Regular live sand? What's this "miracle mud" about?

 

I've got Chaeto in my primarily I also have some caulerpa (which I feed my tang), and some mystery red algae that is very pretty (don't really know what it is)... Also live sand is what is in mine (only snails, and one small hermit are all that is in there... (other than a ton of pods, and some bristle worms) it's 29 gals

 

I've been reading a bit about dissolved oxygen content in the "real reef." As you'd expect available dissolved oxygen peaks in the afternoon as the algae has had some time to produce some. Given that this swing happens in the ocean -- does it still make sense to run refugium lights with an intverted cycle? This'll help stabilize pH and dissolved oxygen... but does it make it MORE like the real reef, or less like it?

 

That is correct, but it takes a lot of macro and reverse lighting to stabelize this, most of us are running much smaller refugiums than our display (me 180 display, 29 refugium) I can't stabelize my Ph with just reverse ligthing on my refuge... I also have to drip kalk at night and I still have a ~.18 Ph swing per day.

 

I can't comment on the dissolved oxygen other than by refering to my Ph swings as a reference.

 

Dave

[Grav]

Emessary,

 

Not Atlantic and Pacific mixing with each other, water from off the reef (where things like O2 are not being used) mixing into the reef.

 

FIshface,

 

Seabunnies? What that is?

 

phil

[emissary]

Seabunnies?  What that is?

 

Mm yea, I could use a few seabunnies if you can spare them at some point in Augustish.

[Larry Grenier]

IPSF's seabunnies

[OUsnakebyte]

I put a single 55 watt pc over my sump and put the chaeto in there - grows like crazy. It's lit 24-hrs a day. I've been doing this for over two years now, and it's working great. I can't keep the chaeto trimmed back fast enough. The down side to this is I often have to clean the intake guard to my external return pump (gets jammed up with chaeto...). So, it's not a separate refugium, but it serves many of the same functions...

 

I have feather and grape calurpa in my 5.5 nano, and I have noticed the feather "going sexual" in my nano much more often that the grape. There is only a mantis shrimp and some bullet-proof corals in there, so nothing has been negatively affected... yet... I don't think I'll ever put these calurpas in my 75 sps tank.

 

Cheers

Mike

[Guest Siders]

We also must understand there are several different types of feather caluerpa and also that Caluerpa racemosa may be out competing the feather caluerpa as grape caluerpa tends to grow faster. Hence the reason of it going sexual. I am going for a fuge also right now. I am thinking of one of those mini-aqualights found on drfostersmith.com they are cheap ($30) and have a good light range. What type of light do you guys recommend? I think I will stick to some chaeto as it seems pretty carefree except for the trimming and has great nutrient export capabilities. Thx. Siders.

[emissary]

What type of light do you guys recommend? I think I will stick to some chaeto as it seems pretty carefree except for the trimming and has great nutrient export capabilities. Thx. Siders.

 

I was just pointed to this as a good refugium light:

 

http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/page/001/P...ectors/1P381951

 

Mentioned here:

 

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthre...threadid=599175

 

(thanks rocko)

[rocko918]

Yea, i have been running the bulb in this link ( the one on the left, got from lowes)Melev's reefs for a while now and my cheato grow like crazy.

 

The RC thread can get confusing as everyone is trying different bulbs.

[Guest Keyoke]

Seabunnies?  What that is?

 

phil

32690[/snapback]

 

IPSF sells 'em, but their site is pretty much worthless when it comes to info on 'em. I just don't get warm fuzzies from those guys.

 

I did some digging, the Sea Slug forum site reports that they're actually ID'd as Stylocheilus Striatus. There was a picture available of 'em, but apparent'y IPSF asked the forum to take the picture down... Can't be having folks actually ID their sea bunnies and looking for other sources.. gotta keep the profits up.. (this kinda stuff just chaps my hide)

 

I was able to find little else information wise, but I wasn't really in the mood to dig much deeper.

 

Pictures of the Seabuny are here

Sea Slug Forum entry on the little critter

[Guest Keyoke]

...

 

Sea bunnies .. might be kinda fun to have one of these in your refugium though..

[Lee Stearns]

I have though about having things in the fuge to eat back the algae and with the exception of snails I think it defeats some of the purpose of nutrient export- They would excrete something, some of which ends up back into more macro growth but at a point there has to be some residue build up that just needs to be withdrawn from our systems- I'd say trimming Chaeto and doing a bit of siphoning from the sump barebottom and the overflow bare bottoms, along with the cleaning of the skimmer cup would be the easiest.

[fishface]

Sorry, lot of posts here, I have to catch up.

 

The Sea Bunnies are available at our freiendly neighborhood Reef Tank, so if you are going to the social, check in advance that they have them. How and who trademarked the Sea Bunnies I'll never know. (Next someone will trademark an Acropora, and we'll be paying license fees to look at them in our own tanks, like we pay to Mr. Gates to "borrow" his software.) Anyway contrary to IPSF, I don't watch them long enough to see them copulate, but I digress...Mike at the Reef tank offered me other some other personal insight on IPSF.

 

On the lighting:

Davlin135 mentioned elswhere that Home depot has a weatherproof light that may be a good choice. I bought two and will put them in a 100gal trough this weekend. I'm going to sink a 20 tank in there and add mud, cheato and bunnies.

 

They should throw a lot of light. I think I mistated the lumens but it up there. They are 65k which is key, appear like a 150 watt and use 27watts, I bought 2.

So they are efficient and I don't have to worry that I've added another heat source to the tank. Oh, and they have a housing, so they aren't exposed like most floodlamps are. It's in the lighting-security section.

 

PM me if they don't have any Sea Bunnies, and I'll bring some babies to spread around. I'm looking for the little starfish to toss into the fuges.

 

FF

[emissary]

They should throw a lot of light. I think I mistated the lumens but it up there. They are 65k which is key, appear like a 150 watt and use 27watts, I bought 2.

 

65k, really? Interesting. Got a pic? Make/Model?