Colors Change

[Caribbean Jake]

Why do colors change in corals?

 

I have few corals that have changed colors over the month; i.e.; an olive green white rim Montipora berrucosa plate has changed the olive green to a light brown. I currently have 3 250W 10K MH with 2 110V Actinic 03 suplementals. I change the actinics every 8 month and the MH every 6 month. Still some of my corals loose their color. Why? Is there a supplement needed? Before going on these are the parameters.

 

Temp: 78 F Alk: 125 mg/l CA: 460 ppm PH: 8.4 Mag: normal

System is equipped with Kalk reactor and CA reactor with a sumpump/refuge.

 

Is there something I'm missing? Does anyone has an idea?

 

Jacob

[Caribbean Jake]

Found three possible theories.

 

1) Change in spectrum of light. This happens when we change bulbs or Kelvin on bulbs used.

 

2) Nutrition: This happens when corals deplete the nutrition base they have in their surroundings.

 

3) NFI: or one other theory is that we have no _____ idea why the corals change colors in captivity.

 

Your inputs are as good as mine and very welcome.

[michaelg]

Found three possible theories.

 

1) Change in spectrum of light.  This happens when we change bulbs or Kelvin on bulbs used.

 

2) Nutrition:  This happens when corals deplete the nutrition base they have in their surroundings.

 

3) NFI:  or one other theorie is that we have no _____ idea why the corals change colors in captivity.

 

Your inputs are as good as mine and very welcome.

30060[/snapback]

 

 

All 3 are on the right track. It is what is being influenced in the corals the causes the color changes. Brown comes from zoxanthallae density in the tissue. The more zoax, the more brown. Usually an indication of less light, but not always. I think some corals like a lot of those little guys there for other reasons. All the other colors, by and large are UV pigments. Nutrients tend to produce more browns (higher nitrates in particular). When bleaching happens, what I think is happening is both the zoax and the uv pigments are being purged- the corals generals response to cleaning itself out (though sometimes this goes too far and it doesn't recover). there's my conjectures for you Oh Yeah, and the biggest still remains is #3. Why have different uv absorbing colors? Won't one or 2 colors suffice?

 

For further reading there is a pretty lenghty discussion on this pinned in the coral forum at RC.

[flowerseller]

As I mentioned in an earlier thread without much detail, I am experienceing a similar although much more advanced situation in my tank.

While I initially thought I had it under control, I may be slowly proving myself wrong.

 

I tend to change 25g of water about every other month and have used IO for as long as I can remember, longer than most have even been in the hobby.

The only thing that has been done differntly to the aquarium is to change 3 - 9month old AB 10k bulbs with 3 10k XMs. I did this over about 45 days. I mentioned that I thought these lights looks whiter and brighter.

After or around the time I completed this, I noticed what Jake mentioned as corals turning brown. My green bali slimmer turned brown over the course of a week.

I didn't become too alarmed until several others followed suit.

Many have either faded in color and some have even turned white (polyps still visible)

All growth has stopped for the first time in 15years.

Then some began loosing tissue from the tips back. All bali slimmers are now gone.

There has been no change to any LPS or softies and some may even look better. My bright yellow cups show a slight bit of brown however.

I have put 2 of the ABs back in for now and changed 25g of water

 

PH 8.1 - 8.2

CA 380-420

DKH 8.5

SG 1.24

 

My tank is a very established, well stocked, long term tank with 3-5' CC bed (not up to discussion of removal)

Hopefully, when I see new growth and feel I'm back on track, I'll be asking for a couple frags.

 

Gotta go sell some flowers so I can see some of mother natures color. :(

Jake, I feel for you and wish I had a suggestion this time. Not sure you want it at this point though.

 

Chip

[Lee Stearns]

good discussion- Chip standing by with some frags if you need restock- I saw a very similar thing happen in Eddi's tank right after bulb changes- It simply digressed to where he had rtn in many of his acros - after several months things started to come back and growth was normal again. Then one year later he dutifly changed out his bulbs and went through the same cycle of loosing a lot of his corals. I am not changing MH bulbs till mine burn out!- I had thought to change one of my four 110 Vho actinics out to a white actinic and rotating it in the four slots over the tank just to show some form of lighting change to these corals. Have no idea as to how to aviod what I see some folks have gone through with light induced problems. I will certainly not change form my 250ABs after seeing what change can cause.

[Caribbean Jake]

Guys Thank you

 

I did another research last night and came with another fact besides the three mentioned above. Believe it or not the expert attribute discolorations to water movement.

 

Fact #4: Water Movement

 

Sometimes water movement is directly related to nutrition supply into corals. Low water movement will deter corals from cleaning their tissues and contamination accumulates on or around its tentacles. Heavy water movement does not allow corals extract sufficient nutrients from its surroundings. Medium water movement is ideal but who and where is to determine the water movement ideal for each and every SPS in the ecosystem?

 

The #1 reason ------> it seems to be the light spectrum change and most of the events are related to the XM 10K 250W bulb; but together with all other facts it can worsen or it can delay the discoloration.

 

Chip

I got yellow and green Bali Slimmer ready for fraging and you are more than welcome to a piece to get you started. Feel free to contact me when you are ready to move on. I am still looking for Kalk media. What LRS you recommend and what media should I use?

 

Thanks again guys.

Jacob

[flowerseller]

I've been mixing my reagent grade calcium hydroxide (been using that for 15 years) with the codex mississippi lime and been happy with it. I've been mixing to blend into a new formula until the other runs out.

I can give you some that will last you awhile just call or PM me, I will be around the house tomorrow up until 3:00.

Thanks and I plan to take you up hopefully soon.

 

My water movement has not changed.

 

Lee,

Thanks, I'll take you up soon and am looking forward to it. I've changed bulbs many, many times with no problem until I went to the XMs which I believe could just be coinceidential but hey..... That's the only change I know of.

 

Chip

 

BTW, I'm working on a new theory I believe could be problematic for many of us propagators but not ready to post until I think more. Lets chat sometime on WAMAS chat

[Caribbean Jake]

Chip

I'll be home Sunday if you want to come over and take a look at the frags. If you plan on coming bring the stuff you blend.

Jacob

[Caribbean Jake]

Have you look at your actinic VHO lights? They are built 1/2 white and 1/2 blue, meaning the tube when lighted can be seen blue on one half and white on the other. Well as luck will have it I didn't noticed and installed the tubes with the blue section facing up and the white section facing down into the tank. This installation together with 3 XM 10K 250W will give the tank a white yellow look. I took the bulbs out and placed them so that blue will shine down on tank while white part will shine upward. So was the change that people whom has seen the tank in the past few hours are comenting of the blue white shine specturm on the tank different from previous days. Well I wonder if all along I been misplacing the bulb and increasing the yellow spectrum instead of the desired blue white spectrum into my tank. Wonder if that has anything to do with those corals changing into brown. Nevertheless I will try the USHIO with this new approach of ACTINIC03 blue side down and hope for the best. Just another experience in this ever learning Hobby.

[GaryL]

chip what ballast do you have, i think i have solved some of my acro issues that i told you about.... i was running xm 10k's on an eye ballast which require iwasaki bulbs that are murcury vapor. maybe the envelope burn was producing some funky spectrum that the wild acros could not handle. so im going to switch back to the iwasaki's and see what happens.

[flowerseller]

Gary,

My problem is with 10+ year old colonies as well as some frags I've gotten along the way. Lee Stearns and Howard (kinda like the Cher of reefkeeping) were by this afternoon and we had some interesting discussions in regards to my "event".

We are begining to settle on the theory I was eluding to earlier in this post.

Dr Lee and his suitcase test kit confirmed my water params OK except my SG is running high 1.028 but I have been using the same hydrometer forever. We found 2+ degrees higher than my test of 1.025ish. .

We are leaning toward UV burn which was what I was thinking about. Come to find Eddi has had this twice after changing XM bulbs.

 

I'll post more as I see changes and finalize my thoughts about the UV burn I believe has happened.

 

Jake,

Your not blonde are you? :D Reminds me of the blondes laying sod with the foreman saying green side up every once in awhile.

Funny you say about the bulb upside down. One of my 03s in the front had rotated up but I don't think that's my main issue. No idea how long as it could have happen this AM when I put an XM back in on the right side.

 

Chip

[Caribbean Jake]

Chip, no not blonde. But like I said you always learn something new every day on this hobby either my chance or by mistake. I will look into the SPG this afternoon but it has been riding at 1.0245 to 1.026 all along and don't think that is a major issue. You think it should be lowered? And what is that about the UV spectrum on the XM 10K ?????? that sure worries me.

[flowerseller]

We're leaning toward UV burn, similar to sunburn in humans.

I believe that is my issue.

Lee checked my water params yesterday and they were fine.

Chip

[HowardofNOVA]

You know it blows my mind that we CHANGE or UPGRADE our bulbs and have problems, but in the real world, Mother Nature throws a Storms, Typhoons, Overcast Days and yet they continue to go on, let alone that from what I've read that the sun is putting off 100,000k of light and we are dabbling with the small differences of either 6,500k or 10,000k or 20,000k?

Howard

 

I'm so confused! Someone just pull the chain please?

:toilet:

 

BTW,

Dr Lee stopped over and discovered my Alkalinity was 1/2 what it should have been. 2.0!

Prescribed 1 tsp. of Baking Soda 2 days in a row and retest!

I MAY call him in the morning?

[HowardofNOVA]

Lee,

This is your kit that you had correct?

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod...8&N=2004+113074

Howard

[GaryL]

some methods may vary some people bake their baking soda. i perfer to add it to DI and heat a little in the microwave to make it disolve completely. it works wonders with alk.

[Lee Stearns]

You can bake the Arm and Hammer baking soda but it just turns it into the equivalent of washing soda- Exact same chemical- Arm and Hammer's washing soda(which is not easy to find- make sure it is pure with no perfumes) will raise alk but also raise PH at the same time- If your PH is normal- 8.10 -8.30 then I would just add baking soda. One teaspoon to a glass of RO/DI and it should raise 50 gallons about .5 in alkalinity. At least that is what the chemical Guru Randy Holmes over at reef central says, and has proven out in my tanks- Just a note of caution go slow in changing alkalinity. .5 rise a day is about all you want to do. You are shooting for 3.0-3.5 alk or multiply by that number by 2.8 to get dhk. There is a somewhat natural balance between Calcium and Alkalinity. Once you get to 3.0-3.5 then add only balanced additives or Kalk wasser(pickling lime) which is balanced calcium and ALk to keep you there.

Howard that is the kit I got. Eddi and I found it for $49.00 some where. Of note is: It is neat and compact a major plus, allows you to carry everything including other tests neatly in one cotainer- On the minus side, It also has many tests I do not use - several are fresh water tests- So if you need refills I would just take out any test you do not use and add maybe a magnesium test, possibly a copper test- which I have never tested for but would be interseted in just for giggles in seeing what my params my coraline was growing best at.

[HowardofNOVA]

Thanks Lee,

Just went home for lunch and checked on the tank, seems ok.

Added the second teaspoon of baking soda. So far ok. Will check it tonight to see how it's doing and report tomorrow.

1 tsp. per day x 2 days to about 110g of water. 4 drops yesterday = 2.0

Tomorrow = TBD?

Howard

[flowerseller]

Will someone taller than me please pull the chain above!

[Caribbean Jake]

:toilet:

 

your welcome Chip

[HowardofNOVA]

:angel:

 

 

 

.....now see what you guys done!

 

 

I'm off to the big lagoon in sky!

[Caribbean Jake]

good news in color change'

The olive montipora is taking back its green color, you can see the transition of the zoanthela changing from light brown into greenish color. perhaps the VHO lights with blue upside down actually worked right away to save the decoloration of the pieces. I can't wait to see the USHIO at work with these VHO's.

[GaryL]

sweet you'll be givin me frags in no time. :P