PoggiPJ January 10, 2011 Share January 10, 2011 Hi folks, I'm moving my fish into a new 180 in my study and I've been off the boards for a while. What is the current wisdom regarding sand/substrate to use in our tanks? It used to be Southdown/Yardright sand but I hear that they are no longer available. Is there a replacement available locally? I do have sand in my 220 but that tank is full of those little green Mojano anemones so I'd like to start with new substrate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad January 10, 2011 Share January 10, 2011 Unfortunately, you are right that Southdown and Yardright are no longer available and I have yet to find a stable and comparable replacement (although it has been a few years since I have looked). There are a few "beach" playsands on the market, but the majority of them are silicon based (do a vinegar test if you are unsure). There is a fair amount of controversy with these types of sands with proponents on both sides of using it, I have always avoided it simply because of the controversy and I have not needed a lot of sand. Users will say that it is cheap and will get the job done, opponents will say they see diatoms and algae problems, that the irregular sized particles (silicon based is usually jagged edged while calcium carbonate based is usually rounded) is not good for substrate sifters, and that the silicon based sand doesn't act as a buffer. My opinion on the matter would be to go ahead and use it since the substrate sifters live in silicon based substrate too and people will always complain that X caused algae problems without really understanding what actually did cause the problem, and I question the use of sand as a buffer anyhow since the pH in a coral based system with something like kalkwasser for topoff is too high for the sand to have much of an affect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoggiPJ January 10, 2011 Author Share January 10, 2011 Thanks. I share your opinion. I'm thinking to maybe use a combination of both. Seems like the best price I can find on true aragonite is a little more than $1 per pound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad January 10, 2011 Share January 10, 2011 1$ a pound isn't too bad of a deal... Also, if you cannot find or order it through one of our sponsor vendors, you can occasionally you can get great shipping deals from the big online retailers. I ordered a couple of bags from DFS early last year for 5.99 shipping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F&Fmgr January 10, 2011 Share January 10, 2011 WWI crushed coral sand #1 40# bags gor for less than $25 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoggiPJ January 10, 2011 Author Share January 10, 2011 "WWI" ?? Not sure what you mean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L8 2 RISE January 10, 2011 Share January 10, 2011 I'm going to need about 600 pounds of sand for what I want to do in my system so have done a ton of research on cheap sources for sand. I was and probably will do a write up in a new thread once I finally follow through, but what I have found is that silicon sand is not an issue at all and there is literally no one out there who has set up a tank with silicon sand and had any issues with diatoms or ANYTHING. The problem is that silicon sand is basically a bunch of little pieces of glass so is very sharp and will not only scratch acrylic easily, but could also scratch glass. It also MAY cause problems for sand dwelling creatures based on how sharp it is. Another argument agains silicon sand is that it won't act as a buffer, however calcium based sands wouldn't act as a buffer either unless your pH goes down low enough to kill everything in the tank anyways because it doesn't start to dissolve until pH goes down into the six's. I decided that I don't want to use your average play sand from lowes/hd ONLY because I now have an acrylic tank that I would rather not scratch. There really is no other reason not to use silicon sand. What I decided I wanted to do is go with a calcium or aragonite based sand instead so started looking for cheap alternatives. Pavestone makes a product called "pulverized limestone" that is EXACTLY what we could use for our tanks and similar to aragonite, the problem is finding it this time of year. I found a local garden center that can get a pallet in, but I'd need to buy the whole pallet so I was thinking of putting a group buy together at some point but hadn't got around to it. At $5 a bag, give or take, and exactly the same make up as your tiypical aragonite sand, it really is the best deal out there by far, it's just a matter of getting it this time of year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L8 2 RISE January 10, 2011 Share January 10, 2011 "WWI" ?? Not sure what you mean http://www.cheappetproducts.net/ATLANTIC__1_Grade_Crushed_CORAL_SAND_40LB-P71270.html Sean, is this beach sand consistency or is it the bigger chunks of crushed coral type stuff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami January 10, 2011 Share January 10, 2011 "WWI" ?? Not sure what you mean WWI = [For] what it's worth... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L8 2 RISE January 10, 2011 Share January 10, 2011 WWI = [For] what it's worth... Actually, World Wide Imports Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami January 10, 2011 Share January 10, 2011 I'm going to need about 600 pounds of sand for what I want to do in my system so have done a ton of research on cheap sources for sand. I was and probably will do a write up in a new thread once I finally follow through, but what I have found is that silicon sand is not an issue at all and there is literally no one out there who has set up a tank with silicon sand and had any issues with diatoms or ANYTHING. The problem is that silicon sand is basically a bunch of little pieces of glass so is very sharp and will not only scratch acrylic easily, but could also scratch glass. It also MAY cause problems for sand dwelling creatures based on how sharp it is. Another argument agains silicon sand is that it won't act as a buffer, however calcium based sands wouldn't act as a buffer either unless your pH goes down low enough to kill everything in the tank anyways because it doesn't start to dissolve until pH goes down into the six's. Agree with all of this. Keep in mind that silica sand can also scratch glass - not only acrylic - if it gets caught between a magfloat and the panel. I decided that I don't want to use your average play sand from lowes/hd ONLY because I now have an acrylic tank that I would rather not scratch. There really is no other reason not to use silicon sand. What I decided I wanted to do is go with a calcium or aragonite based sand instead so started looking for cheap alternatives. Pavestone makes a product called "pulverized limestone" that is EXACTLY what we could use for our tanks and similar to aragonite, the problem is finding it this time of year. I found a local garden center that can get a pallet in, but I'd need to buy the whole pallet so I was thinking of putting a group buy together at some point but hadn't got around to it. At $5 a bag, give or take, and exactly the same make up as your tiypical aragonite sand, it really is the best deal out there by far, it's just a matter of getting it this time of year. Sam, something to think about are possible impurities present depending upon the limestone source. These may be released into the water column under the slightly acidic conditions that sometimes exist in our sand beds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami January 10, 2011 Share January 10, 2011 Actually, World Wide Imports LOL. I didn't realize he was talking about a company! I just read it as FWIW. Not only wrong, but mildly dyslexic, too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F&Fmgr January 10, 2011 Share January 10, 2011 worldwide imports The #0 is fine grain, its what I have in my coral flats. Here is the web link 1 2 The aragonite #0 is also fine grain and an nice DSB sand...the crushed coral is cheaper I believe and also it comes in 40lb bags where the aragonite does not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F&Fmgr January 10, 2011 Share January 10, 2011 Sam, If you want to organize a group buy for some quality sand LMK Sean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveoutlaw January 10, 2011 Share January 10, 2011 "WWI" ?? Not sure what you mean I would use what you have. Pick out as many of the Majanos as you can, rinse it, and then put it in. It will save you a ton of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoggiPJ January 10, 2011 Author Share January 10, 2011 I would use what you have. Pick out as many of the Majanos as you can, rinse it, and then put it in. It will save you a ton of money. I don't know Steve. All it takes is ONE of those little bas%$&!s and the next thing you know, there are thousands of them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterDog January 11, 2011 Share January 11, 2011 I don't know Steve. All it takes is ONE of those little bas%$&!s and the next thing you know, there are thousands of them Not sure, but you could just put a layer of kalk or joe's juice or something over the sand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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