I need a simple explanation of sumps

[Guest jcwordslinger]

Please be as simplistic as possible... I have a 50g (which I know is small) with a CPR HOB skimmer and a Fluval cannister filter. Well, it was brought to my attention that my cannister filter is designed for use with tanks UP TO 40g. I'm leaning towards just using the cannister filter anyway. BUT I am considering getting a newer bigger one and just using the smaller one in my QT.

 

Now, everyone keeps informing me that sumps are the way to go. Due to the relatively small tank size I was going to forgo the sump. I really don't know much about them. Can someone explain it to me?

[ErikS]

Check the links section & look for the link to "Pez's" website, he has the simplest explantion of a sump & how it works I've ever seen. It's clear & to the point - it helped me out in the beginning (same reason, after reading it I pretty much said "aha").

 

(here - CyberReefGuru)

 

Some of the pros for a sump are -

 

1. More water volume

2. A good place for equipment (gets it out of the tank)

3. Helps aerate the water (water is turned over to the sump & in the sump) = more surface area = more air introduced

4. Surface skimming, the water at the surface of the tank is "skimmed" by the overflow = no protien film & better air exchange.

 

In reality they just make the tank easier to manage, a good place for a topoff, Ca reactor feeds, chiller loops, heaters, etc.

[rocko918]

Please be as simplistic as possible... I have a 50g (which I know is small) with a CPR HOB skimmer and a Fluval cannister filter.  Well, it was brought to my attention that my cannister filter is designed for use with tanks UP TO 40g.  I'm leaning towards just using the cannister filter anyway.  BUT I am considering getting a newer bigger one and just using the smaller one in my QT.

 

Now, everyone keeps informing me that sumps are the way to go.  Due to the relatively small tank size I was going to forgo the sump.  I really don't know much about them.  Can someone explain it to me?

27474[/snapback]

 

 

By the way, a 50 g tank is not small! i have a 12g and i know some people have even smaller ones. You can keep may great corals and fish in a 50. Just make sure you read about them to see if it is right for your tank.

 

I would recommned a sump. It's just another tank when you can put all your equipemnt , heaters, pumps, protien skimmer, setup a auto top off. Carbon bags.

and the added water. the more water the more stable you system can be.

[Guest jcwordslinger]

Is a wet/dry filter the same as a sump?

[Lee Stearns]

JC,

You can do just fine with the system you propose- There are just limits to what you can keep depending on water stability and lighting. That is it. Simple end of story. mixed reef keeping can be as simple as you want it to be.

Nano cubes which are about 12 gallons are self contained with the filter in the back and a pump- the surface skims over the top into the filterarea. Several of us have these at our offices. They typically have 50/50 PC lights which allow for nearly all soft corals. No refuge or sump or even a skimmer- I am limited to about two small fish one a fire fish for color and a golden watchman goby with a pistol shrimp. 1 blue leg, 2 red leg hermits, 3 astrella snails, 2 bunble bee snails, 2 nasarrias, 2 ceriths and a mythryz crab and a little long feather calurpa that I trim back occasionally. There is great coraline on everthing. Maybe 10 lbs of live rock.

In the tank coral wise I have:

Capanella, 4 different zoantids, 3 types of mushrooms, 2 types of ricordia, 2 types of Green star polys, 1 anthelia, finger leather, cabbage leather, and yellow colony polyp.

So you see in 12 gallons you can put a lot of variety if you pick and choose what will work. Very simple very low maintenance.

I have the lights on timers, the heater is in the back filtration section and it has run regularly for 18 months going two and three day weekends without any food. I feed selcon soaked frozen mysis shrimp some golden pearls and stir the 1-2 inch sand bed a bit occasionally. Use the magnetic glass cleaner every other day- change out a gollon of water once a week or so from my home system- and that is about it.

Your 50 gallon with canaster filter and hob skimmer will do fine with T-5 lighting. Some live rock will be key to not totally relying on the canister filter- esp when you break it down to clean or change pads, carbon or other material in it.

There are many many ways to skin the cat of a reef system. You need to be aware of the limitations of what your system can sucessfully handle bio load wise. All the corals I have listed above will do fine in your system that you have described with out a refuge or sump. stirring the tanks water suface or allowing some skimming from it keep a film from forming is critical in the oxygen your tank requires.

You do not have to make reef keeping into a large tank or make it difficult unless you choose tank occupants that will not survive with out constant upkeep or attention to thier more exacting water stability parameters. There are lots of absolutely georgeous smalll fish that do very well in the size tank you have. there are lots of corals of which many of us would give you when you have your system up and cycled.

A lot of the pleasure of this hobby for me is learning its limitations learning to balance a mixed reef for minimal maintenace/ corrections or input, and sharing.

Regards,

Lee

[HowardofNOVA]

JC,

Don't take this wrong, but I would recommend taking a few moments and research what it take's to keep a SW Aquarium. I recommend reading a book for two on understanding this crazy world of being a Reefer

It's not rock science, well ok, some people like to make it that, but some tricks of the trade are a blast when you understand exactly what your trying to do and are actually quite simple! In our case, replicating a portion of mother natures world for our viewing pleasure.

My first book, answered alot of questions for me in the beginning and I'm only into my 3rd year of this, but will hopefully help you like it did me. "Natural Reef Systems" by John Tullock: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod...1&N=2004+113293

and "Aquarium Corals" by Eric Borneman: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod...7&N=2004+113293

which I'm still trying to read through still!

WAMAS, ReefCentral, CMAS are all excellent tools and your in the right place for learning this hobby the best, but getting down the basic's first will help you understand some of the pleasures of this hobby!

Howard

 

PS Sorry to go on a rant

[Guest jcwordslinger]

Lee, thank you for your response. A week ago I was thinking quite positively about my set-up, but something I have learned as I use this forum is that everyone has their own theories and opinions. Some people's messages have been discouraging. Then I start to second guess myself. But I'm sticking with my plan and when I'm ready for corals I'll talk to ya.

By the way, most people here are very supportive. I appreciate all the words of wisdom.

JC

[xeon]

JC,

Instead of typing out what a sump is... here is a link to the best "what is a sump" explanation anyone could possibly ever give. (IMO)

 

http://www.melevsreef.com/what_sump.html

 

FWIW, I do not think a 50 gallon tank is too small for a sump. If you are going the coral route, I would strongly suggest the sump.

[ErikS]

I would strongly suggest the sump.

I'd concur, heck I have one on my 37g - and it's currently a FOWLR tank. It really does make life easy(er). I started the same as you, w/ a Fluval. The biggest issue with using a canister filter is nitrates which coral doesn't react well to. Nitrates are fine for fish, but not good for coral. Any "bio ball" organic filtration's final product is nitrates, this is fine for fish as it doesn't bother them - as mentioned not so good for coral.

[Guest jcwordslinger]

So how do you combat nitrates that get produced by either a cannister filter or sump?

[ErikS]

If it's a cannister filter you combat the nitrates by frequent media changes/cleaning (same goes for any mechanical filtration).

 

Nitrates are not a problem with a sump, there's no mechanical filtration - just a skimmer. If you DO use mechanical filtration in a sump then it must be cleaned frequently (i.e. I use a filter pad which gets changed every couple of days).

 

"Bio ball" type of filtration (like the macaroni looking media) house massive amounts of bacteria due to their surface area - this becomes what is called a "nitrate factory". As I mentioned this is great for fish as it can handle a large bio-load, but not so good for coral to which nitrates are toxic.

 

The nitrates that do develop in a "berlin filtration" system are dealt w/ through water changes.

[Guest jcwordslinger]

So if use a cannister filter with live rock, should I remove the media from it leaving only the carbon?

Also, where do I buy a sump and overflow around here?

[ErikS]

Around here? The Marine Scene used to carry Amiracle/Life Reef style overflows, not sure if they still do. IIRC mine was about $60 from them. The only real key to a bulletproof external overflow is to have a baffle between the drain & the u-tube - this makes it impossible to lose the siphon when the power goes out. If you look at www.lifereef.com (pre-filter) you can see the design to which I refer. Amiracle overflows can be found online for about $45. (http://www.aquacorals.com/ShopOverflows.htm)

 

Slap in a "Stockman pipe" (about $3 worth of PVC) & you're good to go.

 

Sumps, I have no idea, I can't remember seeing one for sale in the area...........BUT.........

 

You can use any old fish tank for a sump. The partitions can me made from either acrylic or glass - lots of folks DIY a sump.

 

Online vendors such as MyReefCreations, Premium Aquatics, and Marine Depot carry ready made sumps.

[Grav]

JC,

 

Howard has a good point. There is a lot to learn in books and mags, I am sorry I didn't offer to you something from my library when you were over. That said, you are asking the right questions, and moving slowly. My "little" 33g took 3 years to get where it is and never had a sump, and I think it looks pretty darn good. Filter, skimmer and heater are all HOB.

 

Your 50 is gonna be a great project.

 

Remember the sump on my big tank? It is just a 34 gal rubbermade tub, a skimmer a little filter media and a few baffles slapped together quickly. My "Fuge" is a 5gal bucket and took me 10 min to make. Of course I plan to build a fancy sump out of a 40g breeder, and then add a 24gal fuge, but these things take time.

 

Phil