STN Treatment

[cabrego]

Hey guys a few frags and a large colony of acros are showing signs of STN almost exclusively at the tips. I have not had would I would consider any quick alk swings but my alk did drop by about 1 dkh a week (for 3 weeks) to the level it is at now when my kalk reactor was off line. What can I do to stop this? Has anyone successfully beat this problem?

 

Water Parameters:

 

Nitrates 5

S.G.=1.025

PO4=.09

Alk=9

Mg=1350

Ca=375

Edited August 12, 2010 by cabrego

[lhcorals]

I might be wrong but i thought STN started at the base of the coral.

[Coral Hind]

It sounds like an increase in light might be the cause. Have you changed bulbs lately, added fresh carbon, or anything else that would increase light on the corals?

 

 

[cabrego]

I might be wrong but i thought STN started at the base of the coral.

 

From what I have digged up STN is not generalized as starting from the tips or the base.

 

It sounds like an increase in light might be the cause. Have you changed bulbs lately, added fresh carbon, or anything else that would increase light on the corals?

 

The most significant changes I made were about a month ago and were part of my normal ~monthly maintenance routine.

-20g Water Change

-Fresh Carbon

-Fresh GFO

-Upped the Mg to about 15 ml/ml to increase the Mg from 1240 to 1350 over the course of about 3 weeks. This was part of my 'dialing' in process for daily Mg dosing.

 

I refresh the carbon and gfo every month so I am bit skeptical about that factor adversely affecting the corals. My first thought was more along the lines of impurities in the Mg solutions. It is a MgCl/Epson Salt Mix. I pulled that off from daily dosing today.

 

I should also note I have noticed signs of tip whitening in some of the corals for the past couple of weeks, but lately it has gotten to the point where action is required. My favorite colony of acropora nana is showing significant tissue loss at the tips

 

I dipped a handful of corals today in an iodine solution for 15 min. Not sure what else I can do to fix this.....

[Coral Hind]

Posting some pictures would really help. Impurities in the homemade dosing could be a cause. I would do a large water change and add a Poly-Filter to absorb anything that might be in the water.

 

 

[cabrego]

It is on every little tip on the bushy acropora nana.

[zygote2k]

There are so many things that could cause this- trying to say that it could be 'impurities in the Mg mix' is like a needle in a haystack. Maybe it is just the time for STN in your tank. Just like ich is always present, the bacteria or virus that causes STN is always present. It could even be a barometric pressure change....

[Coral Hind]

z2k,

Sure there are lots of possible causes but he has to start the troubleshooting process somewhere and that is an area that he thinks could be an issue.

 

cabrego,

We need some pictures. I would lower it in the tank some and see what happens.

Edited August 13, 2010 by Coral Hind

[cabrego]

There are so many things that could cause this- trying to say that it could be 'impurities in the Mg mix' is like a needle in a haystack. Maybe it is just the time for STN in your tank. Just like ich is always present, the bacteria or virus that causes STN is always present. It could even be a barometric pressure change....

That was very insightful . When I observe a change in the tank I review what changes have occured and that is the information I have relayed. In my case very little changes have occured and nothing out of the ordinary other than the increase in Mg Dosing. I don't know what has caused it, I just know I want it to stop!

 

z2k,

Sure there are lots of possible causes but he has to start the troubleshooting process somewhere and that is an area that he thinks could be an issue.

 

cabrego,

We need some pictures. I would lower it in the tank some and see what happens.

 

Well, I promise some pictures tonight-I just hope they are not going to be worse pictures than if I posted them last night...

[Jan]

RTN started at the base in the colonies I've lost recently. Whenever I have RTN that has started at the tips it was because it was too close to something else. It got stung by feelers or chemical emitted by another coral. One thing that is consistant is that once it starts it's difficult to stop. I have had success in stopping the spread of RTN which starts in the tips by cutting the tip to the flesh and then applying crazy glue to seal it off. This method has not worked for RTN which starts at the base.

 

I wonder if RTN that starts at the base is sesonal? Has anyone observed this around Spring or Summer?

[zygote2k]

i think to suspect 'impurities' is grasping at straws. You don't know what or how much, if any of these 'impurities' exist. Raising the Mg 110ppm over 3 weeks certainly isn't going to cause STN. It's just a coincidence, nothing more.

 

I think what Jan says is more likely to be true or it's just a completely random occurence.

i think we as hobbyists tend to make erroneous correlations when something goes wrong or randomly occurs in our tanks. If you keep good records or water chemistry and weather information, you might have a better chance at identifying the cause.

[zygote2k]

I don't mean to say that it is weather related, but it's as much of a reality as 'impurities' in Mg. What causes it in real life? Pollution? If so, it could be household air pollution. If you really suspect 'impurities', check your r/o water first.

[cabrego]

RTN started at the base in the colonies I've lost recently. Whenever I have RTN that has started at the tips it was because it was too close to something else. It got stung by feelers or chemical emitted by another coral. One thing that is consistant is that once it starts it's difficult to stop. I have had success in stopping the spread of RTN which starts in the tips by cutting the tip to the flesh and then applying crazy glue to seal it off. This method has not worked for RTN which starts at the base.

 

I wonder if RTN that starts at the base is sesonal? Has anyone observed this around Spring or Summer?

 

I think you mistakenly used RTN twice in your last sentences. I tried the super clue technique on the first frag that I noticed the RTN on but it did not seem to help. I had to clip a large branch last night.

 

i think to suspect 'impurities' is grasping at straws. You don't know what or how much, if any of these 'impurities' exist. Raising the Mg 110ppm over 3 weeks certainly isn't going to cause STN. It's just a coincidence, nothing more.

 

I think what Jan says is more likely to be true or it's just a completely random occurence.

i think we as hobbyists tend to make erroneous correlations when something goes wrong or randomly occurs in our tanks. If you keep good records or water chemistry and weather information, you might have a better chance at identifying the cause.

 

I think it is funny that you can draw a conclusion about what may be the cause for a problem in my tank with the very little information you have about my tank. I have not drawn any conclusions and it is my tank!

 

I only mention the Mg dosing because any person with good sense is going to look at what has changed in their system. My notes indicate that I increased daily Mg dosing to 15 ml from the previous 1 ml. There is a distinct difference between making observations and drawing conclusions.

[Jan]

If you get Magnesium on SPS it will cause them to bleach. I tried to kill bryopsis that was attached to SPS by squirting Magnesium directly on to the bryopsis. The coral was too close and it caused STN within hours. The bleaching took off and lead to RTN of entire colony in days.

 

In my case very little changes have occured and nothing out of the ordinary other than the increase in Mg Dosing.

Edited August 13, 2010 by Jan

[basser9]

Those cheap bulbs you run can shift on you and cause it.

I had a mag rust on me and caused the same thing if you dont dip and clip you

will most likely lose everthing........Use revive

[Jan]

Vibrio bacteria

What does a Vibrio Infection look like: You cannot see this bacterial infection with your eyes. However, you can see the signs of the infection.

Signs of infection: Rapid or slow loss of coral tissue revealing the bone of the coral. Typical seen is SPS corals.

Life Cycle: These infections are thought to be spread through the water column. Water column being defined as a conceptual column of water from surface to bottom sediments. Little else is know about the spread of the infection.

Prevention: A quarantine tank is the easiest way to prevent Vibrio infections from destroying your reef tank. Ideally corals should be left in quarantine for 3 months. During the quarantine time you should view the coral on a daily basis and watch for any anomalies. Whether or not quarantine is an option, a dip in CoralRx is highly suggested.

Treatment: Treatment should be done in a quarantine tank. First step is to move the effected corals to a quarantine tank; the quarantine tank should have good light and water flow. Setup your quarantine tank, then take your coral out of the main tank and dip it in Coral Rx. Making sure it is getting in between the branches and in all the cracks of the coral. Do this for approximately 5 - 10 minutes. After 5 - 10 minutes, remove coral and discard the coral dip. Do not reuse coral dip as Coral Rx may have also removed parasites that have been known to release toxins. Rinse coral with clean saltwater and return to quarantine tank. Repeat every 4-7 days until tissue recession has stopped. Leave the coral in your quarantine system for an additional 3 months before moving back to your aquarium.

 

 

Edited August 13, 2010 by Jan

[zygote2k]

After reading that article, it seems that the best course of action is to remove the coral from the DT and treat it elsewhere. It also states that it is likely caused by proximity to other corals.

 

As for the Mg- sure if I squirt concentrated Mg on my corals, they will surely die, but since it's a small amount added over the course of 3 weeks, it's unlikely that it would even remotely have anything to do with the RTN.

 

Cabrego- I'm only drawing conclusions about the statements that you have made about your tank. I don't have a crystal ball to magically view yours from a distance, but with the amount of time I've invested in this hobby, I feel certain that it isn't Mg.

[cabrego]

Well thanks for all the tips. At this point I am definitely in damage control mode when I get home today I hope to see that the coral has not drastically declined. Stinging from other corals is a real possiblity since there is another much smaller acro growing next to it and they are starting to overlap at the base. The base shows no signs of tissue loss so far just the tips.

 

I have a couple of other frags (on a frag rack), one from the same mother colony that is also showing signs of STN but from the base. I also have a frag of red planet showing RTN from the base. boo hoo this sucks!

[cabrego]

OK as promised here are some pics of the carnage and of the tank in general..

[cabrego]

Does any one want to rescue these colonies? My largest colonies are starting to show signs of STN and nothing I do seems to stop it. The colonies are basically the largest ones in the pictures.

 

I can't just watch these corals die so I will give them to someone who can save them (I hope).

[Jan]

I would take them but I've had no success. I cut, glued, treated, everything I could possibly do to stop the RTN and nothing worked. I took 2 colonies from another member about 3 weeks ago and tried to save them too and nothing. the RTN stopped for about 5 days and started up again. They're gone within 24 hours.

 

Justin suggested that the RTN may be due to some type of algae. I'm thinking he's right. I noticed a diatom looking algae growing on the white areas when the corals started to RTN. I'm also thinking it may have been introduced by a wild colony. I purchased a large bushy acro from Liveaquaria some 3 months ago and that's when it all started. About 1 month later that colony started to RTN from the center and base up. Have you introduced any new SPS in the last 2-3 months? When the colonies finally died, when they were all white, they then turned a deep. I'm thinking that whatever caused this to happen may have been introduced from something wild.

[Der ABT]

id be willing to try a frag or two but like Jan said evertime i tried it with mine it didnt work, looks like you had some great colors as well.

 

the tips seemed to be burned like with too much vodka/mb7/etc

id try throwing a polypad in there and see if it might help just in case.

 

other thing i would try is setting a qt tank, if you have a small 5g or something, take some tank water and new water and do some water changes to replace all the used water. dont know if it will work but it cant hurt

 

all of the corals that where sick that I dipped would usually ended up dieing im guessing cause it stressed them out more but

 

let me know if you wanna try and meet up tonight

[cabrego]

Yeah I really don't know what the issue is. No vodka dosing-it is a very slow process though and it is has spread further. It only seems to be affecting the acroporas. All my other corals are doing pretty good. I am sure it is only a matter of time before all the acros are infected.

 

Could it be some bacteria infection-can I dose my tank with something? Right now is not a good time for me to set up a dedicated quarantine so I kind of in a bad spot.

[mogurnda]

Here

[Vadim]

2 of my corals are doing it now. One has been doing it ever since i got it but it returns to it's original color. I've had it for 2 months now and i think i've only seen it's color off and on for maybe 3 weeks. But like i said mine goes back to it's original color.