russell_wiley December 16, 2009 Share December 16, 2009 My new frag tank came in today! It was made by a guy from ebay who auctions them off. This one cost me more in shipping than what I won the auction for. It is 19.25"x14"x8" which is 7.5ish gallons (I think). It will have a 30 gallon sump. The rest, I am not so sure about. Will a 70w MH work over it? It has a 1" drain & a 3/4" return. What size return pump would be best? Thanks, Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luceneck December 18, 2009 Share December 18, 2009 Looks nice! Not sure on the lighting but I am eager to see what you come up with. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davelin315 December 21, 2009 Share December 21, 2009 Hey Russell, I would think that the 70W would be just fine, but it may not give you enough coverage unless you have a good reflector. I run 400W bulbs in Lumenarc III reflectors and they could easily cover that tank footprint, but I don't know that any of the 70W ones will cover that. Any thoughts on going up to a 150W bulb that will cover more? I just think that you won't find a good reflector for a 70W bulb and if you do, it'll probably not be worth it overall... Keep in mind I have no experience with 70W bulbs, but I do have a 150HQI that gets minimal coverage over a school tank and am thinking of moving it off and using it over a 15 gallon high instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russell_wiley December 21, 2009 Author Share December 21, 2009 (edited) I wouldn't mind going with a 150w, but all I have laying around is my 70w. I also thought about going with this: Evilc66's PAR 38 - 21w Cree Lamp http://www.nanotuners.com/product_info.php?products_id=623 I'm still trying to find a pump as well. Edited December 21, 2009 by russell_wiley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan December 21, 2009 Share December 21, 2009 (edited) 70 watt MH is plenty of light for your frag tank. My pico is 8" deep and I get amazing growth and color in SPS and LPS with my 70 watt MH. I started out with only 36 watt PC's but didn't get the color until I switched to the 70 watt MH. Right now I have a 70watt viper on my 10 gallon planted tank. It's 12" deep and I'm getting great growth and color in just 10 days. My new frag tank came in today! It was made by a guy from ebay who auctions them off. This one cost me more in shipping than what I won the auction for. It is 19.25"x14"x8" which is 7.5ish gallons (I think). It will have a 30 gallon sump. The rest, I am not so sure about. Will a 70w MH work over it? It has a 1" drain & a 3/4" return. What size return pump would be best?Thanks, Russ Edited December 21, 2009 by Jan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davelin315 December 21, 2009 Share December 21, 2009 70 watt MH is plenty of light for your frag tank. My pico is 8" deep and I get amazing growth and color in SPS and LPS with my 70 watt MH. I started out with only 36 watt PC's but didn't get the color until I switched to the 70 watt MH. Right now I have a 70watt viper on my 10 gallon planted tank. It's 12" deep and I'm getting great growth and color in just 10 days. Penetration of the light is not the issue I'm thinking of, it's the overall coverage of the tank. What I notice with my 150 is that the coverage is lousy and anything outside of the fixture itself gets pretty useless light. For a frag system, you're pretty much looking to get good overall use of the footprint and my guess is that a 70W will not give that kind of coverage. Again, don't have one of these, though. Jan, in your pico, what's the footprint that you are getting the good coverage in? Also, I'm curious about the planted tank, is this planted as in fresh water or planted as in algae? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluefunelement December 21, 2009 Share December 21, 2009 Keep in mind that the MH can be raised/lowered to increase the throw. Not sure I would get a single PAR LED though as it would have even less throw - maybe ok for display but for a frag tank I'd go toward MH, T5, or cheap PC. What corals do you plan to keep? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan December 21, 2009 Share December 21, 2009 The footprints are 11.8" for the picotope and 19" for 10 gallon. I have several types macro in the 10 gallon planted system including dragons breath that's doing great. We all know how much light and movement dragons breath needs to survive. I also moved my mangroves into the macro planted tank and in just 10 days I have more leaves sprouting in these 10 days than I did when they were in my fuge 4" above the light yet closer to the 26watt PC. I have the magroves further away (in height and width) from the 70 watt light in the 10 gallon. They're above the 70 watt light itself about 5 inches or so and about 4 inches away from the center. They're too tall for these small tanks but I still have good growth (granted mangroves don't need nearly as much light as coral do so the amount of growth is what I'm looking at). For me the proof comes from how well the occupants in my system are doingI look at their overall health;growth rate and color. So far I'm having great results. Light does not travel in a straight line. I think this is why i'm having such success with growth and color with the 70 watt. I can adjust my viper up or down to spread light out more or less. I can't do this with my sunpod. I also find that I don't have an issue with heat with the 70 watt. I'm not so sure that would be the case with 150watt lamp in shallow system tanks like these. I rely on what other reefers have experienced with these things. I try to reasearch these things before I start and have found WAMAS to be a good source for answers to questions like this as well as other sites like wetwebmedia. Here's a link with several post regarding smaller system and lighting requirements. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/smmarsyslgtfaq2.htm Penetration of the light is not the issue I'm thinking of, it's the overall coverage of the tank. What I notice with my 150 is that the coverage is lousy and anything outside of the fixture itself gets pretty useless light. For a frag system, you're pretty much looking to get good overall use of the footprint and my guess is that a 70W will not give that kind of coverage. Again, don't have one of these, though. Jan, in your pico, what's the footprint that you are getting the good coverage in? Also, I'm curious about the planted tank, is this planted as in fresh water or planted as in algae? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davelin315 December 21, 2009 Share December 21, 2009 Light does not travel in a straight line. Huh? Light does travel in straight lines only, hence them being called light rays. Water will refract the light at a constant angle but this is only in a stagnant situation with no surface agitation. In our systems where we churn the top of the water the light rays are scattered all over the place once they hit the water surface. The reflector is often what makes things work well in our systems by reflecting the rays that travel out away from the tank back down towards the tank. A good reflector can make a shoddy bulb as effective as a good bulb with a shoddy reflector in some instances because it refocuses at least 50% of the light, if not more, right back into the tank, while a bad reflector will not. I'm not familiar with the Viper reflector but believe it's the hammered mirror finish? As a parabolic reflector on a fairly small lamp, how much PAR is it putting out on the sides of the lamp? I know that the Coralife unit I run has very little PAR on the sides due to the poor reflector that they use in the lamp. The ballast itself is adequate, but doesn't provide a whole lot. Question about the Viper, drawing an analogy to light bulbs. What height would you raise it to in order to get the right amount of coverage? Kind of like taking a spot versus a flood light and trying to get coverage over a specific area. I know that the Coralife won't get great coverage until you raise it up high enough, but then you are sacrificing a great deal of the PAR by raising it up. I have always thought about picking up one of the used Vipers on here, but never really knew whether they would be sufficient in a lot of settings to accomplish what I want. Interesting link to WWM, read through some of those but seems like the heat issue would only come up with it being in an enclosed system (e.g. a lot of aquapods on there). Out in the air, I have a 150HQI clamp on that generates very little heat as far as the water is concerned, if any at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan December 22, 2009 Share December 22, 2009 Honestly Dave the science behind it all is over my head . All I know is that I get great growth with my 70 watt viper in my 10 gallon and 70 watt sunpod on my picotope than I did with PC's. I thought sun rays diffuse a little and that's why even with a hat on I still get a tan on my face. I'm much better at expalining anatomy and physiology and the physiological processes associated with disease or mechanisms of injury than anything related to earth sciences and physics. I'm probably even wrong that light falls in either of the latter as well. Huh? Light does travel in straight lines only, hence them being called light rays. Water will refract the light at a constant angle but this is only in a stagnant situation with no surface agitation. In our systems where we churn the top of the water the light rays are scattered all over the place once they hit the water surface. The reflector is often what makes things work well in our systems by reflecting the rays that travel out away from the tank back down towards the tank. A good reflector can make a shoddy bulb as effective as a good bulb with a shoddy reflector in some instances because it refocuses at least 50% of the light, if not more, right back into the tank, while a bad reflector will not. I'm not familiar with the Viper reflector but believe it's the hammered mirror finish? As a parabolic reflector on a fairly small lamp, how much PAR is it putting out on the sides of the lamp? I know that the Coralife unit I run has very little PAR on the sides due to the poor reflector that they use in the lamp. The ballast itself is adequate, but doesn't provide a whole lot. Question about the Viper, drawing an analogy to light bulbs. What height would you raise it to in order to get the right amount of coverage? Kind of like taking a spot versus a flood light and trying to get coverage over a specific area. I know that the Coralife won't get great coverage until you raise it up high enough, but then you are sacrificing a great deal of the PAR by raising it up. I have always thought about picking up one of the used Vipers on here, but never really knew whether they would be sufficient in a lot of settings to accomplish what I want. Interesting link to WWM, read through some of those but seems like the heat issue would only come up with it being in an enclosed system (e.g. a lot of aquapods on there). Out in the air, I have a 150HQI clamp on that generates very little heat as far as the water is concerned, if any at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russell_wiley December 22, 2009 Author Share December 22, 2009 Here are some pics all set up! It always scares me to death when I set up a new tank. I don't want a flood or worse in my kitchen! It has alot of softies in it for now. I need to get rid of them. So, if y'all know anyone who wants some let me know. It's mostly leathers. Enjoy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrcoral.com December 25, 2009 Share December 25, 2009 Nice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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