bkl911 August 7, 2009 Share August 7, 2009 Just curious what peoples opinions are of ASM skimmers. I have always used smaller Euroreefs and have an MSX 200. Since I have a larger tank in the works (333 display and 100+g for sump/refugium), I was going to buy an ASM G5 this weekend for it. I tried google search and tried searching on here and have not found a ton of info. I know they say that the skimmer is rated up to 700g, but that sounds extremely optimistic. I don't have a huge budget right now and prefer not to spend a ton. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveoutlaw August 7, 2009 Share August 7, 2009 They are "ok" skimmers. For the price, you can't beat 'em........but having owned many, many skimmers in my time, Octopus and Euroreef are a step up. A bigger step up are the Deltecs and the H&S. In my experience, you get what you pay for.......and I wouldn't skimp on the skimmer. Look over on RC.......there are some nice deals on some high end skimmers over there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coral Hind August 7, 2009 Share August 7, 2009 I have two ASM G3's on seperate systems and both perform great and are very easy to maintain. I do think the ratings as far as tank volume goes are accurate unless you have a very heavily stocked system. I recently replaced a G1X for a G3 on my heavily loaded system with an actual water volume of 205 gallons. Since installing the G3 on that system the chaeto has completely stopped growing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extreme_tooth_decay August 7, 2009 Share August 7, 2009 Just curious what peoples opinions are of ASM skimmers. I have always used smaller Euroreefs and have an MSX 200. Since I have a larger tank in the works (333 display and 100+g for sump/refugium), I was going to buy an ASM G5 this weekend for it. I tried google search and tried searching on here and have not found a ton of info. I know they say that the skimmer is rated up to 700g, but that sounds extremely optimistic. I don't have a huge budget right now and prefer not to spend a ton. Thanks! I think they're the best deal going. I had two for years (2 tanks) and loved them. I'll never understand why people pay more. It is generally agreed that ASM overestimate the tank ratings (and that euroreef underestimate theirs). A 700 ASM rating on your 333+100 sounds "about right" to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygote2k August 7, 2009 Share August 7, 2009 I have a 90 sps tank that runs a Euroreef RS2 and a 240 that runs a Euroreef RS4. They both perform great. I also have a 125 and a 150 and both run ASM G1x's. I think for the money that the ASM's perform as well or better than the EuroReefs. If you are worried about skimmers being undersized, just get 2 and run them side by side. Way back in the day, I worked on a 380 and it had a pair of AquaMedic T-1000's which are another inexpensive but impressive skimmer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davelin315 August 7, 2009 Share August 7, 2009 dhoch's selling a high end skimmer for slightly more than you'd pay for a single G5 and it would probably do a better job than putting 2 G5s side by side in a tank or even going to the G6. I had a G6 and it was good, but nowhere near the performance of a high end skimmer. Here's where the adage you get what you pay for comes into play. As far as the cheaper skimmers, ASM gives you a good skimmer for the money, but you can upgrade and get better overall performance from a better skimmer, at least in my experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guppychao August 7, 2009 Share August 7, 2009 what about the mods that you can do with the asm's such as the impellar and gate mod? does the mod imporve their performance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkl911 August 7, 2009 Author Share August 7, 2009 dhoch's selling a high end skimmer for slightly more than you'd pay for a single G5 and it would probably do a better job than putting 2 G5s side by side in a tank or even going to the G6. I had a G6 and it was good, but nowhere near the performance of a high end skimmer. Here's where the adage you get what you pay for comes into play. As far as the cheaper skimmers, ASM gives you a good skimmer for the money, but you can upgrade and get better overall performance from a better skimmer, at least in my experience. Yea, I was over his place this past weekend and picked up the freezer and other misc stuff. I was tempted to buy the Deltec, but thought it would be too small for my setup. I am getting the G5 for a great price from a fellow reefer, but just wanted to make sure I was making a truly wise decision. I always try to buy the best (based on budget) the first time around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davelin315 August 7, 2009 Share August 7, 2009 Yea, I was over his place this past weekend and picked up the freezer and other misc stuff. I was tempted to buy the Deltec, but thought it would be too small for my setup. I am getting the G5 for a great price from a fellow reefer, but just wanted to make sure I was making a truly wise decision. I always try to buy the best (based on budget) the first time around. I bought the G6 because I didn't think I could afford one of the higher end skimmers. In the end, I wish I had bought the better skimmer to start with as I ended up selling the skimmer off later on to get a new one as it didn't accomplish what I wanted it to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extreme_tooth_decay August 7, 2009 Share August 7, 2009 what about the mods that you can do with the asm's such as the impellar and gate mod? does the mod imporve their performance? The impeller mod does improve performance, but would improve the performance of any skimmer that uses the same pump, it has nothing to do with ASM's particular cylinder of acrylic (which seems very similar to the cylinder of acrylic used on "high-end" skimmers to me...I am still confused). The gate valve does not, it only allegedly makes the skimmer easier to adjust (though it did not in my case, the stand pipe worked just as well) tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phisigs79 August 7, 2009 Share August 7, 2009 I love my ASM g4x. It works well for my setup which is about 150g total volume. I did the gate valvur and it works well for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygote2k August 7, 2009 Share August 7, 2009 I wasn't saying to put 2) G5's side by side, but rather 2) smaller skimmers like G1x's. I believe 2 of these will outperform any single "high end" skimmer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveoutlaw August 7, 2009 Share August 7, 2009 I wasn't saying to put 2) G5's side by side, but rather 2) smaller skimmers like G1x's. I believe 2 of these will outperform any single "high end" skimmer. Based on what? We can debate the issue all day, but the fact is the higher end skimmers perform better. That's not saying that ASMs are bad skimmers at all. But I've used ASM and Euroreef on the same system.........Euroreef performed consistently better. I've used Euroreef and Deltec on the same system.......Deltec performed better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davelin315 August 7, 2009 Share August 7, 2009 I wasn't saying to put 2) G5's side by side, but rather 2) smaller skimmers like G1x's. I believe 2 of these will outperform any single "high end" skimmer. When you look at the high end skimmers, there's definitely going to be a lot of doubt about their overall performance and whether they're worth that much money, but there are definitely justifications to each skimmer. For instance, if you buy a Bubble King you're obviously paying a heck of a lot of money, but when you look at the parts, it makes sense in the very very very long term. A Red Dragon pump, for example, draws far less power than any other pump out there and is far more efficient with very little heat transfer to your water. My ASM skimmer had to be run in sump as it leaked horribly no matter what and with three Sedra 9000 pumps at 90 Watts each transferring not only the heat from the electricity it used but also the heat from the friction of the impeller it added a good 4-5 degrees, if not more, to my system which has around 650-700 gallons of water in it. The Red Dragon uses half the wattage of one pump, pumps more water and probably more accurately than the Sedras do (900 gallons versus 1189 gallons), and produces almost not heat and no impeller friction resulting in less calcification on the impeller and shaft and therefore more long term efficiency and less maintenance. Would I buy this pump and skimmer? Heck no! I can't afford it, but I suppose that over time it would make up for the cost. As far as body style, the ASMs tend to be taller rather than wider and, in my experience, tend not to generate and concentrate as much of a head as higher end skimmers. Also, the ASMs require you to do the modifications while the others don't require mods as they are already performing at or near peak performance. It's not to say that the mods are difficult or expensive, it's just not done in advance for you and you're always taking the chance that you'll do something wrong, although drilling the ASMs is very easy since they're soft bodied skimmers (they're made from extruded PVC instead of acrylic). As far as two G1xs outperforming a higher end skimmer, I think that if you bought multiple skimmers and modded them all then you'd approach the price of a higher end skimmer anyway but still wouldn't get the overall results to say that it would outperform, although I have never done head to head testing. I can say, however, that in the first day of use, my GSA skimmer pulled more crap out of the water than my ASM G6 with recirculating mod and gate valve mod did over the course of a week, and it was much nastier stuff. Of course, it cost twice as much, but the power draw is far less so over the past year I'd say that my power bills have begun to even it out, especially when you factor in the heat issues I was mentioning and how much it cost me to cool my tank before versus now (neither is a pretty figure). I would say that if you've never done a head to head comparison, you should try it out. There are a few members here who have, but I have not done that myself. I'm not saying that the ASM skimmers are bad, you just get the value that you pay for and there are ancillary issues with them as far as having them submersed and the amount of heat they produce and energy they consume. Eventually, they'll get the same job done, but for more cost and far less efficiently. It's kind of like saying I'm going to drink a bunch of Milwaukee's Club Light versus drinking a bunch of Guinesses - in the end the result will be the same, but the method for getting there and the aftereffects will certainly be different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coral Hind August 7, 2009 Share August 7, 2009 Zygote2k - I thought your stance was that skimmers were not needed. Now it sounds like you have several of them in use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boret August 7, 2009 Share August 7, 2009 When you look at the high end skimmers, there's definitely going to be a lot of doubt about their overall performance and whether they're worth that much money, but there are definitely justifications to each skimmer. For instance, if you buy a Bubble King you're obviously paying a heck of a lot of money [......]. Very nice post Dave. Price is so relative.... The limit I set myself when looking for a new skimmer was $500. That might be petty cash to some and a fortune to others. I do however think that some of those skimmers are insanely expensive regardless of being the best performers and using great quality materials. The BK Royal Exclusive 650 retails between $8k to $10k. You can buy a car for that kind of money!!! Do you (you as in general use not anyone in particular) mean to tell me that there is more engineering, parts, materials, etc in the skimmer than in a car? I highly doubt it. Is it a great skimmer.... but of course. Is it worth 10 grand... no way! I am sure skimmer manufacturers don't have the volume sales of car manufacturers and they have to add quite a bit on top of materials and building cost. But no one is coming up with an earth shattering design... all are pretty much improved versions of the same ventury, downdraft, etc... concept. They don't have to comply with as many regulations as cars (airbags, crash test performance, etc...) heck most of the regulations are on the electric part, the motor and many don't even build them. And each tank is a bit different than the next. You have different pH values, temps, salinity, bio loads, etc... so it is almost impossible to compare things. Probably the same Skimmer on two equal volume/bio load systems will have different performance due to chemical elements in the water column, brand of salt, etc. Even trying 2 different skimmers in the same tank might not be possible. How do you make sure that both are getting the same "dirty" water to skim off? Jamesbuff tested a Deltec and a GSA side by side and he run in to those types of problems trying to make a totally objective test. I also think that it is almost like a status thing. Like a Rolex. A cool tag to add to your signature It is always a heated debate, regardless of the forum. We even have one thread going on right now with pretty much the same subject. I am glad there are vendor out there (GSA, MSX, etc...) selling good quality, decent performance, skimmers that won't break the bank. Done with the rant..... as per the OP question. From what I have read ASM are a bit behind the times. There is a guy on RC (mojo) who has done a lot of testing on skimmers maybe you can find some interesting information there. I do think that for the same amount of money that you get an ASM you can get a "better" skimmer from a different brand. That is my opinion based on what I have gathered online over months of research without ever owning an ASM skimmer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygote2k August 7, 2009 Share August 7, 2009 Zygote2k - I thought your stance was that skimmers were not needed. Now it sounds like you have several of them in use. I only recommend the non-skimmer system on my home tank or if you have the space available for a large refugium and the ability to perform daily checks. On all my maintenance tanks there are either ASM's or Euroreefs. On a customers' tank, I'm going to use skimmers because I'm only there once a week and I can't trust them to do daily checks on their tanks. This may sound like I'm against protein skimmers, but I'm really not. I push the refugium principle only to prove that it can be done and that it is quite possible to meet the parameters needed for an all SPS system. I've worked in the fish industry for nearly 20 years and have heard so many things that the market says are only possible if you buy the latest gadget. I was very successful selling reef books and subsequently selling high quality reef systems using the knowledge that I have gained and not listening to the various vendors hawking their wares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkl911 August 10, 2009 Author Share August 10, 2009 Well, I picked up the skimmer this weekend and it is quite beastly in size. Unfortunately now I will have to reconfigure my entire sump/refugium plans since this skimmer will not fit into my ETSS HD42 sump/ref. My original plans for a Octopus 200 would have worked, but I cannot put the ASM in there. So, just curious now, with people who have this skimmer, where do you put it? I have an extra 75g tank that I am thinking about using and drilling. My only complaint about the skimmer is the cheap material they use. But I guess if it works fine....no worries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygote2k August 10, 2009 Share August 10, 2009 I've never heard of anyone breaking a skimmer while using it as it is meant to be used. The construction quality is fine as long as you aren't abusing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coral Hind August 10, 2009 Share August 10, 2009 I agree with Rob. The ASM PVC will actually flex more and is less likely to crack then skimmers made from acrylic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkl911 August 10, 2009 Author Share August 10, 2009 Yea, I don't plan to "abuse" it...except for what it is supposed to do...LOL! I just thought it felt more plasticky (sp) then my Euroreef skimmer. Well, I am happy I have it and hope I can figure out where to put it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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