SOLD on AmQuel+

[dschflier]

Their are so many products out on the market. The way I see it is, if the explanation as to how it works isn't easy to understand and if they don't explain specifically what it is doing to lower the nitrates I am not interested.

 

The products which are used extensively through the hobby are used in large quantities because it is very obvious what they do and it can be explained.

 

It is pretty obvious how a skimmer works. some people may say they dont need them for a succesful tank but regardless know one questions that it removes waste from the water column

 

Carbon is the same. It is very well documented as to how and why it works as well as it does

 

GFO , water changes, refugium

 

 

These are all things that have been shown, almost without question, that they work. Some people use all of them others do not but I don't know of anyone questions what they do and how they do it. I will stick with these.

[treesprite]

I use measures to export nutrients and to limit adding them, but that does nothing for nitrate that is leeching slowly out of rock that is not cured by even scrubbing, soaking, rinsing, or anything. Right now I just want something to keep the nitrate from affecting anything in the tank whether it is out of the tank or "somewhere" other than "free" in the water- it isn't killing anything but makes cyano grow and makes corals brown from over-population of zooxanthellae.

[treesprite]

I tested the offline RDSB water again. (Please Note: at this point for the RDSB I am just looking at whether or not the product will have an effect on a DSB, not whether or not the nitrate is gone, locked up, or masked from test color indicators). The nitrate test result level which had dropped after dosing then went back up, has again dropped just not as far. Maybe it is just taking time for the product to penetrate the sand.

[zygote2k]

Forrest, how can you be certain that the results you are seeing are not just the masking effect on the test kit? AmQuel is known to do this, so any test results you get are going to be bogus.

[treesprite]

Forrest, how can you be certain that the results you are seeing are not just the masking effect on the test kit? AmQuel is known to do this, so any test results you get are going to be bogus.

From my last post:

(Please Note: at this point for the RDSB I am just looking at whether or not the product will have an effect on a DSB, not whether or not the nitrate is gone, locked up, or masked from test color indicators).

[treesprite]

I would like to know what exactly "mask" means or entails, or by what process something "masks".

A. Product actually interferes with the test chemicals directly, which says absolutely nothing about what the additive is doing to the water chemistry.

B. Product is "hiding" the test subject (in this case nitrate), which would mean the product is indeed interacting with the test subject.

C. Manufacturer made a deal with the Romulons for microscopic cloaking devices, so that each molecule of the product has one to cloak each molecule or ion of the test subject.

 

Looking at B., which in the case at hand seems to me to be the most likely answer, the question is, what is the interaction that is happening? Since the Product is assumed to be "hiding" the test subject it must not be breaking the test subject down because then the test subject would no longer exist therefore there would be no "masking" happening. The only alternative is that the Product is binding the test subject to itself. What a person would hope is that the binding is "hiding" the test subject from the life forms in the aquarium to keep them apart, as well as it is "hiding" the test subject from the test results.

[zygote2k]

I believe "A" is the more likely answer.

You should pose this question directly to Randy Holmes Farley on RC.com and see what his take is.

[treesprite]

I believe "A" is the more likely answer.

You should pose this question directly to Randy Holmes Farley on RC.com and see what his take is.

Does he somehow know the ingredients of AmQuel+ when no one else does?

It's funny, I am registered at RC but never post there and hardly ever read there unless I'm looking for something specific (then the search function never works) - the site is so large that it overwhelms me.

[blaze98]

Randy Holmes Farley is a chemist by profession and a reefer also, he does tests on various things and writes very good articles for the reefing community. Here is a link to one of his articles.... advanced aquarist

[treesprite]

Randy Holmes Farley is a chemist by profession and a reefer also, he does tests on various things and writes very good articles for the reefing community. Here is a link to one of his articles.... advanced aquarist

Thanks.

[Origami]

RHF is probably the most respected chemist in the hobby today in my opinion. Head on over to RC's chemistry forum... he's a frequent poster and the person everyone looks to for advice. He's a chemist over at Genzyme, I believe. Cliff Babcock (Highland Reefer) is over there, too, and posting more frequently over there nowadays than here....

 

I've not been following this thread, Forrest, but just read it. I'm not sure how Amquel+ is locking things up but let me make a couple of comments. First, a quick read of Amquel's action indicates that it binds multiple nitrogen compounds, including ammonia. While this is good in an emergency situation, ammonia IS the food that feeds a substantial part of your biological filter. If you go "locking it up" as part of your regular practice, you'll degrade your biological filter because bacteria will die off until they balance the available nutrients (ammonia). Effectively, you'll be asking your bacterial friends to compete with your chemical additives for food. That is probably the principle reason that I'd be wary of trying to control nitrogen compounds this way.

 

A second, albeit minor, reason is that you'll be disrupting the completion of the nitrogen cycle which has an effect on alkalinity. You see, in the conversion path between ammonia and nitrate, a unit of alkalinity is consumed. In completing the cycle, when nitrate is converted to N2 gas, that unit of alkalinity is returned. Interrupting this conversion - whether it be through the use of an additive or through water changes, effectively unbalances your calcium - alkalinity ratio, forcing you to supplement using an unbalanced additive to make up the difference. Like I said, it's a minor reason. Many people control nitrates with water changes.

[treesprite]

Well thought-out points, thank you.

 

Bottle is all gone now and I don't plan on getting any more of it. I was thinking about using it regularly (like once a month) for the clownfish tank, but I won't do it if it is going to mess up the cycle. I have to start on the vodka dosing with the 65 now as planned but want more dosing information. I don't think I can do it on teh clownfish tank because it only has a CPR Bakpak for a skimmer.

 

Thanks for all the input folks. If I ever hear from Kordon in response to my e-mail I'll post it, but I think they are ignoring me.