thinking of auto dosing... your opinions?

[fishcam]

So I'd like to be able to automate my dosing of ca, alk and mg and I'd like to know what other folks are doing. Should I get two or three dosing pumps and program them with my ACIII, or should I go the calcium reactor route? (I'm not familiar with how CA reactors work, but I think I need a reactor, with a pump, and a co2 system, along with a kalk stirrer... and I dont know what the kalk stirrer does... )

 

Can someone help me with the pros and cons?

 

My tank is a 55g with a 55g sump, with about a 102 total water volume. Most of my tank is SPS frags that I've bought off of folks on the forum, with two LPS. There are a few mushrooms and leathers as well, but I doubt they'd benefit.

 

Eventually, I'd like to upgrade to a 120+ if that matters, but that's a while away. For the near future, I'll have the 55 display!

 

Thanks for any advice!

[jamesbuf]

Honestly, you can go quite a while with just a Kalk reactor before you end up needing a Calcium reactor. You have to have quite a bit of SPS to justify a Ca reactor.

[fishcam]

Honestly, you can go quite a while with just a Kalk reactor before you end up needing a Calcium reactor. You have to have quite a bit of SPS to justify a Ca reactor.

 

What are the differences? I dont know anything about how they work! I've just been manually adding ca, alk and mg!

 

Thanks!

[ctenophore]

What are the differences? I dont know anything about how they work! I've just been manually adding ca, alk and mg!

 

Thanks!

Keep it simple for yourself. If you've been manually adding 3-part, then buy dosing pumps for those since you are comfortable with how it works. Don't bother with a Mg pump, just add that stuff every few weeks or so. Use your AC3 to control them.

[fishcam]

Keep it simple for yourself. If you've been manually adding 3-part, then buy dosing pumps for those since you are comfortable with how it works. Don't bother with a Mg pump, just add that stuff every few weeks or so. Use your AC3 to control them.

 

I'm thinking this is what I might do. Thanks for the advice. Also thanks for the heads up on the MG pump...

[ctenophore]

I'm thinking this is what I might do. Thanks for the advice. Also thanks for the heads up on the MG pump...

Glad to help. You can buy the dosing pumps cheap(er) starting tomorrow from bulk reef supply. Be sure to calibrate them, they should put out about 1.2mL/min, but it's a good idea to time each one for e.g., 10mL and do the math to make sure you set their on-cycle durations correctly.

[dschflier]

My personal opinion is that a kalk stirrer or just mixing calcium hydroxide with RO water to make kalkwasser is the simplest method but that is just me. I also feel it is the cheapest mthod. You do not need a calcium reactor for a long time if ever. If you use Kalkawasser that is a balanced calcium and alkalinity mixture. Then if you want you can just add magnesium.

[ctenophore]

You still need some sort of low volume delivery system for kalk, ideally a dosing pump that delivers 3-5 mL/min. The risk for kalk overdose is high because so little extra constitutes an overdose, hence the effects can be deadly. Just look at the number of kalk overdose accidents in WAMAS over the past month. IMO kalk dosing is riskier than both A/B dosing and Ca reactors. The safest way to deliver kalk is to have addition limited both by water level switch and tank pH value, which typically requires an aquacontroller-class device.

[dschflier]

Well I suppose everyone may have a different opinion about this but I still feel Using Kalkwasser is the easiest. You may feel it is not the safest and I understand your explanation but I feel it is the easiest. I also feel more people have more issues with Kalk overdosing then some other methods because the ease of use creates almost a complacency. I believe if more people used the expensive dosing pumps or did it completely manually they would have less issues.

 

I am a perfect example. I use and auto top off to dose my Kalk which I am sure many other people do. I didn't even incorporate a second float switch as a back up in case my first one fails. Now this definitly poses risk and I really should have a backup switch but I still feel it is the easiest and least expensive and just have not gotten around to installing one.

 

Just my opinion. I would be curious to hear what others think

[jamesbuf]

Well I suppose everyone may have a different opinion about this but I still feel Using Kalkwasser is the easiest. You may feel it is not the safest and I understand your explanation but I feel it is the easiest. I also feel more people have more issues with Kalk overdosing then some other methods because the ease of use creates almost a complacency. I believe if more people used the expensive dosing pumps or did it completely manually they would have less issues.

 

I am a perfect example. I use and auto top off to dose my Kalk which I am sure many other people do. I didn't even incorporate a second float switch as a back up in case my first one fails. Now this definitly poses risk and I really should have a backup switch but I still feel it is the easiest and least expensive and just have not gotten around to installing one.

 

Just my opinion. I would be curious to hear what others think

 

 

David,

 

having a single float valve is asking for trouble. I was lucky that when my single float switch failed, I only had maybe 5-7 gallons of RO water in the storage container. If I had just filled up the RO container, and all 25 gallons had been available to top off, I would've come home to a mess on the floor and a major kalk overdose. I know many people purposely have a small RO container just to avoid this very incident. I use a dual float switch to prevent overflows, as well as have a line of code in my aquacontroller to stop the ATO pump if my pH gets above 8.4.

[reefhunter]

I have been dosing kalk for 1.5 years with a dosing pump on a timer pumping through a kalk stirrer. I adjust my timer depending on evaporation and it tops off a few times per day for a few hours. Very safe, never had a problem.

Edited November 28, 2008 by reefhunter

[fishcam]

So I guess I'm confused at the methods suggested above. One method is dosing CA and ALK with two seperate dosing pumps controlled by my ACIII. This seems to be the safest and allow the most control. The second is to put some sort of mixture in my top off water (where do I buy this powder, etc) and let my ATO (which is redundant) refill as water evaps. This method is more risky, but probably safe enough if I low dose and pay attention when starting out with tests. The third method is a kalk reactor/stirrer, whose function I'm not yet clear on, nor am I clear on how it works different from the above two methods.

 

Am I right here? Can I get some clarification?

 

Many thanks, esp before I potentially spend $140 on two dosers!

 

-d

 

EDIT: and it seems that even with a 55g full of SPS/LPS frags, a CA reactor is out of the mix, so that is AOK with me!

Edited November 28, 2008 by fishcam

[Highland Reefer]

IMHO, the cheapest method for your system size would be to use a food grade pickling lime (kalk) from the grocery store. Especially if you buy it on sale. As suggested above, you mix up the kalk in a larger container depending on what your consumption is. Kalk is saturated at 2 tsps / 1 gallon rodi water. You than run a dosing pump, set at just a little bit more than what your tank evaporates in a day. You control this with a float switch. If the float switch fails, the most that can happen is that you will be adding just a little bit more than what you actually need (no real overdose). With this method you will only need one dosing pump, as long as 2 tsps. kalk per gallon meets your needs for calcium and alkalinity. Kalk is a balanced additive, meaning it will supply the needs of alkalinity and calcium in a proportion that your system will consume them. You may have to adjust your alk & calcium initially with two part mixes. Using kalk will also have an added advantage of keeping your pH up higher if you have high CO2 levels in your home, like I do. The only other problem which has not been mention above is that in all the methods you will have the possibility of an under dose if the pump fails. This can be over come but will cost you more money.

 

Depending on the salt mix you select, you will need to adjust your water change mix each time you change your water. For example, if you use Instant Ocean, you will need to add more calcium & magnesium each time you do a water change. For these adjustments, I find that using Randy Holmes-Farley's Mixes are the most economical. Reef Chemistry Calculator: http://home.comcast.net/~jdieck1/chemcalc.html

 

These articles will help also:

Limewater (kalkwasser)

 

What Your Grandmother Never Told You About Lime

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-01/rhf/index.htm

 

The Self Purification of Limewater (Kalkwasser)

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/may2003/chem.htm

 

The Degradation of Limewater (Kalkwasser) in Air

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-...ature/index.htm

 

Magnesium and Strontium in Limewater

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/dec2003/chem.htm

 

How to Select a Calcium and Alkalinity Supplementation Scheme

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/feb2003/chem.htm

 

Metals in Aquaria

 

Aluminum and aluminum-based phosphate binders

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/iss...ly2003/chem.htm

 

Reef Aquaria with Low Soluble Metals

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-...ature/index.htm

 

Tap Water in Reef Aquaria

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/jan2004/chem.htm

 

First Iron Article: Macroalgae and Dosing Recommendations

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/aug2002/chem.htm

 

Second Iron Article: Iron: A Look at Organisms Other than Macroalgae

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/oct2002/chem.htm

 

The Self Purification of Limewater (Kalkwasser)

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/may2003/chem.htm

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When saturated kalk water no longer meets your needs at 2 tsps kalk / gallon of rodi water, you will have the option of adding vinegar to your kalk mix and gain another 1/3 more calcium and alk.

 

Expanding the Limits of Limewater: Adding Organic Carbon Sources (vinegar) http://web.archive.org/web/20001102180738/...bio/default.asp

Edited November 28, 2008 by Highland Reefer

[bbyatv]

I use the RHF 3 part method and use 2 dosing pumps. Here is a pic of my pumps and bottles.

 

 

 

For me this method is very easy. I mix up 2 gallons of each part once a month. Each gallon last about 13 days.

 

I have my dosing pumps set to 12 ml/hr.

 

They have been running this way for 3 years on 2 different tanks.

 

Bruce

[DDiver]

I am dosing ca,alk, and trace elements through a Profilux doser..awesome piece of equipment for precision dosing..all u need to do is figure out the uptake of each and dose accordingly to maintain the values...

[dschflier]

James,

 

I completely agree with you the sad thing is I just have not gotten around to adding the redundancy. I have an aquacontroller just have never set it up yet and buying a second float switch would cost very little but I just havn't gotten around to it. I need to do this. My point was more about simplicity. I agree if you dont use precautions you(me) am asking for trouble.