Cyano Problem

[reefmontalvo]

I have a 75 gallon tank, and just recently I ran into cyano. It started as a small spot and after looking to the major three:

 

1. Lights T-5's on for ten hours a day

 

2. Flow Two Tunze 6500 pumps on top of the tank facing towards the center brace at a slightly downward angle and a power sweeper.

 

3. Nassarius snails I currently have about eight large not to sure now many small ones.

 

The water parameters are all in there norms. I just can't figure out for the life of me waht I'm missing.

[Kevin Garrison]

Skimmer? Often cyano is caused by lack of skimming or insufficient skimming.

[reefmontalvo]

You know the skimmer is new it's a Tunze, that is probably the problem. The thing does pull some gunk but not as much as the old one, which is in the garbage for certain reasons.

[st9z]

How long have you had your tank for? Usually with cynao the problem is not enough flow to the area where it grows. Try positioning your power heads so that the flow is distribute throughout the tank.

[CHUBAKAH]

It can also be caused by either new, or old bulbs. It's also pretty common in newer tanks.

[reefmontalvo]

Well this is the second tank. I carried over the same practice of water flow placement from the 55 gallon I had. I started this tank back in mid April. All the live stock and corals everything came from the 55 gallon. the only thing new so far is the reactor and the upgraded skimmer. I went from a Sea Clone to a Tunze, LOL. The bulbs will be a year old this January. You think the bulbs need to be changed?

Edited September 22, 2008 by reefmontalvo

[davelin315]

Old bulbs, too long a cycle is my guess, compounded by it being relatively "new".

[reefmontalvo]

LOL, I take it your suspecting my Skimmer being new with old bulbs? This problem just recently happened, I figured the bulbs had at least another three months in them before they need to be changed.

[CHUBAKAH]

Old bulbs, too long a cycle is my guess, compounded by it being relatively "new".

I'm on this bus as well.

[ctenophore]

I disagree with the old bulbs theory.

 

IMO it's a nutrient imbalance combined with not enough competition for the space. There is food for the cyano present, and nothing to outcompete it. You can try more aggressive skimming, but what always solves it for me is water changes and adding more micro-critters like hermits, nassarius snails, tiny brittle stars, etc. Blowing off the large patches with a powerhead will help you get ahead of it.

 

You might also try a few doses of the prodibio bio-digest, I think it helps create an alternative bacterial population that will outcompete the cyanobacteria (note, also a bacteria). It cleaned up several tanks I've worked on in the past.

[zygote2k]

I had a massive outbreak in my 150 maintenance tank. I combatted the cyano with skimming, siphoning off of cyano, reduction of food to the tank and current directed at the sand bed and rock work. In 2 weeks, it was completely gone. I noticed that feeding frozen foods with their associated juices, caused an outbreak.

[reefmontalvo]

I feel I need more Nassarius snails, I counted so far I have eight large snails. I think it might be time to buy like ten more, and allow them to multiply? I only feed the fish what they will eat and the rest, which is near nothing I push over to the fug for the other animals in there to eat.

[jnguyen4007]

How often do you do your water changes? When I ran into that problem sometime back, the advice I got from most people were to increase my water changes regiment until the problem went away then do a regular and frequent water changes. After I did that, the cyano problem went away.

[davelin315]

Nassarius don't eat algae, they are scavengers but will avoid cyanobacteria.

 

As far as using a clean-up crew to dispatch the cyano, you're not solving the problem. Much as I respect Justin's opinion and experience, I have to disagree with him on this one. As bulbs get older, they tend to shift in spectrum and there are some lights that are more conducive to cyano growth when you have nutrients present. Cyanobacteria is actually a moneran, not a bacteria, although it's the only other Phylum in the Moneran Kingdom. Cyanobacteria is photosynthetic and it takes advantage of all of the "crud" in our systems. When our systems become unbalanced and the nutrients are there for the taking, the cyano can take over. You stated that your tank has been set up since April, which to me is considered to be fairly new. It doesn't matter that you transferred it over from an existing tank, when you disturb the sandbed you introduce a lot of nutrients back into the system and also expose your tank to possibly going through the original cycle again (not so much the ammonia and nitrite spikes, but the algal blooms, cyano blooms, and diatom blooms). Now, back to contributing factors. Your lighting cycle is 10 hours long and the bulbs are over a year old according to what you said. That's really stretching the life of the bulbs as well as burning them for long photoperiods. I would shorten your overall photoperiod and replace your bulbs to combat this factor. The second thing is to do some water changes! If you can remove the nutrients, then the cyano will begin to retreat, but this may take you a long while. The last thing is if you increase current, it makes life more difficult for cyanobacteria to survive and thrive. Good luck with your reclamation, if you keep ahead of it you'll succeed without too much headache. The cleaners will also help to eat it, but not nassarius. Only certain snails and crabs will eat cyanobacteria, such as conchs and certain hermit crabs. I would simply add a single conch to your system with the understanding that it won't be able to survive in there indefinitely as they get very large and have large appetites. This will keep the cyano under control long enough for you to get a handle on the problem.

 

Sorry, this might be repetitious... when I posted before I was battling my 9 month old for the keyboard and now I'm tired...

[reefmontalvo]

Thank you for the great advice. I figured the bulbs were getting old. They will be ten months old next month. Around the same time I'm ready to upgrade to MH, LOL. I remeber using Nassarius last time to keep the sand churning and moving I figured an unstable surface was the best to keep the cyano away. Now for the sand I actually used new sand for this tank I only used two cups of old sand to get the tank cycle started when I put this tank together. I used all new base rock and a few live rocks to help seed the tank. I went thru the normal Diatomic bloom and it was easly gone after a few days with some hungary hermits. Now I know I need to bring my lights to code, and add one more pump for additional flow. Thank you everybody for all the great advice.

 

And as for a conch I can go to Grande Mart and pick one up? They are live and cheap.

Edited September 23, 2008 by reefmontalvo

[ctenophore]

Agree that nassarius don't eat it- but as you mentioned above, they do stir the sand and keep it clean and loose, much like earthworms in a garden. That creates a better environment for more diverse sand fauna and flora. More diversity = less chance for a single species (be it a moneran, algae, etc) to take over.

 

As Dave said, a conch will eat it but will grow and eventually starve.

 

I still think the lighting thing is bunk I have tried about every type of lighting available to aquarists (okay except LEDs) using everything from brand new to 4 year old bulbs. Furthermore, having run reef systems under sunlight, which is as full spectrum as you can get, I've watched cyano come and go, and it is always dependent on nutrients and system maturity. I've made cyano grow by adding a few mL of vinegar, and made it dissappear just as quickly by removing that carbon source and keeping an eye on NO3 and PO4 levels.

 

Also, water flow doesn't seem to keep it away all the time, either. I think there are many different strains of "cyano" that we can get, and some definitely like high flow. I think success with increased flow is likely due to more movement/oxygenation of sand (think earthworms) and detritus suspension/removal, not because the water blasts apart the cyano.

 

Anyhow, there are obviously a lot of ways to run a reef tank, and none of them are "proven". All we can do is sit here and trade anecdotes. If it were my tank, I'd do some water changes, after stirring up the sand slightly (a different spot each time, see how much detritus comes out). Add some additional clean up crew, they may be pricey but are at least fun to watch. Adding more flow never hurts. All of these things are cheap, effective, and measurable. You can replace bulbs but since you probably don't have a PAR meter or spectrum analyzer, you don't know if that money is doing you any good.

[reefmontalvo]

Well I ended up buy and installing a MH system which has been running for about a week. The cyano is starting to retract, but the more I look the more I see. LOL Not so good.

 

Just in case I went to Marine Scene earlier today and picked up a fighting conch. I did some reading on the guy and he is from ORA and hermit crab proof. I also noticed with the reading he will get about 4 inches, this is good since he or she will take care of all the excess algae in the tank that the margaritas can't handle. Plus in the event when it does pass away I will have a nice large shell, so in the end it's not that bad.

 

Also will it help if I remove the carbon form the reactor? I have been using about one cup of active carbon and one cup of phospahte remover in my reactor. Not sure if that might play in the cause of the cyano.

Edited October 1, 2008 by reefmontalvo

[quazi]

You are looking for Nerite snails to eat cyano. They are excellent snails in general and exactly what you need.

 

A year is about the life of T5 and VHOs. I change mine @ 9-10 months, but 8 months would be better. I find when cyno is starting to appear, it is time to change bulbs.

 

Water flow is not as important. I have had cyano waving in the current.

 

Keep the carbon and phosphate treatments going.

 

Buy nerite snails, change the bulbs, and continue what you are doing. Your tank will settle down.

 

Oh, one other issue: how is your RO water? What is the TDS? Old DI will (i.e. TDS over 4 or so) will feed the cyano.

[Kevin Garrison]

Someone told me that magnesium also helps, well I found that to be true, since dosing with magnesium my cyano has all but disappeared. Now the hair algea on the glass... that's a different animal... of course someone said the cyano would disappear about the time hair tried to take over...

[reefmontalvo]

To be honest I don't use RO water. I know I'm stirring up the mob, with that comment. I realized the bulbs were old. In a small twist of fate I happen to buy a MH setup from another member the bulbs on that unit are old; well I think they are not sure. But what I'm doing is using the current bulbs to get my corals acclimated to the brighter lights as not to brown out, and yes I have the new bulbs here I'm just waiting for tonight when everything is off to change them. But I have noticed the cyano is starting to die off or disappear after I stirring up the sand more like a quick flip and sucking most of it up with the baster. Plus the conch is doing well I saw him munching away last night on the cyano. Hope he knows he has a buffet ahead of him. LOL

[blaze98]

I got along fine with normal tap water for a year and a half without any problems. I started developing Cyano when I was adding nutrients through my addition of frozen mysis cubes. I did not realize I was adding nutrients to the tank, and after rinsing the mysis before adding the cyano seemed to go away.