Will this fish survive?

[civitan.erichanson]

I bought a Dragon Wrasse at an LFS yesterday. I brought him home, acclimated to temperature and tank water by changing out the bag water over a half hour. Once I added him to the tank (no QT), he swam around but I started to notice that his mouth was persistently wide open and his gill "respiration" rate was very high - i.e., they were constantly opening and closing. I dropped some flake in the tank and it slowly went after it, but I oculd not tell if it closed its mouth. None of the other fish in the tank bothered it.

 

We had swim practice so I could not check on it for three hours. When I came home it was slowly swimming the tank in the same condition.

 

A little before 10PM (about 4 hours after arrival) it settled to the bottom of the tank and layed on its side.

 

Fearing overnight death I netted it to take to a hasty set up QT. When I put it in the net and then the transport cup it flailed around.

 

Once in QT it swam for about a minute and then settled on the bottom sideways.

 

This morning I found it layed up against the airstone, still "hyperventilating."

 

Parameters in my main tank as of Sunday were:

 

PH 8.2

Salinity 1.025

Ammonia: 0

Nitrite: 0

Nitrate: 20

Cal: 400

PO4: 0 (man that Salifert test is hard to read for me)

 

Any ideas on what I can do?

 

Thanks,

 

Eric.

[Highland Reefer]

How long was he in the bag from the fish store to when you started to acclimate him. In some cases the pH can drop quite a bit. If there was not much water in the bag to start with, I have seen cases where the pH has started at like 6.5 in the bag & when you add a cup of your water to it, the increase was suddenly up to 7.5 with just adding one cup of your water.

[Brian Ward]

For future reference, most of us drip acclimate our fish. Place the fish and water he came with in a bucket or small container, place a 1/4" piece of tubing in the tank water and loosely tie a knot in the free end of the line. Start a siphon and then tighten the knot so that the water drips out at a rate of about 2-5 drops per second (faster if the volume of water the fish is in is more, slower if it's less). Let this run for a couple hours and be sure the pH and salinity match before adding the fish. Slowly acclimating the fish to pH is much more important than matching salinity.

 

Now for your specific issue. He's probably very stressed from pH shock and/or salinity shock. The fact that he flailed around when you tried to catch him is a good sign - he's at least alert and reactive. Begin reducing the salinity of your QT system. Fish expend a lot of energy mainting osmotic balance so if you can match the salinity of the water they are in to the natural salinity of their body, they will then expend energy on the next important things - eating, healing, etc. Bring the salinity down to about 1.010 over the course of at least the whole day if not 2 days (I'm assuming you're at ~1.025 now). Fish are much more tolerant of lowering salinity than of raising salinity. Keep him there until he appears fat and healthy and is eating well. Be sure to monitor pH because it is more difficult to maintain in a hyposalinity environment.

[yauger]

sorry to hear about your fish.. hope things work out for the little guy, as for the acclimation process I would try this method from now on out.

 

1. buy a aqualifter pump $10 worth every penny.

2. have an extra 5 gallon bucket of SW premixed ready to go.

3. grab some air line tubing to use with your aqualifter pump.

4. place fish in a empty 5 gallon bucket (or container of your choice) including the LFS water from the bag

5. using a air line pinch valve slow the drip rate to about a slow steady stream (sometimes even slower with some fish)

***ensure you place a small (very small) power head in the bucket to move water and have surface aggitation.

6. allow the bucket to fill to half way mark (usually in about a hour or so)

7. drain the bucket with the fish in it to about 1 gallon remaining.

8. repeat step 5 one more time (or until salinity matches to display tank)

9. remove fish from bucket and release it in the display.

 

this process usually takes me 2 and a half hours for a fast acclimation, most times I try to shoot for a slower 3+ hour drip rate to ensure low stress on the new fish.

[civitan.erichanson]

Thanks very much. So the key now is to lower the salinity in QT to 1.010 correct?

 

Then keep him in QT until he i seating and bahaving "normal".

 

Then to move him to my main tank I would drip adjust him up to the 1.025 from QT correct?

 

Thanks, I am hoping he pulls through also.

 

Eric.

 

Unsure. He arrived that day, he was ordered for me - I did not check to see what happened to him while he was at the store. I should of checked the bag water salinity and PH.

 

How long was he in the bag from the fish store to when you started to acclimate him. In some cases the pH can drop quite a bit. If there was not much water in the bag to start with, I have seen cases where the pH has started at like 6.5 in the bag & when you add a cup of your water to it, the increase was suddenly up to 7.5 with just adding one cup of your water.

[phisigs79]

IMO give him a few days to adjust before lowering salinity. QT him for 4-6 weeks and slowly raise the salinity in the QT tank until it matches the main tank. I think i remember someone saying not to increase salinity more than .002 per day but basically very slowly. Could take a week or more to bring it back up. Then acclimate him to the main tank. good luck

[Highland Reefer]

A lot of LFS's acclimate the fish in the bags by adding one cup of new water every ten minutes. When the fish are shipped to the store, the fish may be in the bag for a long time, meaning the pH drops quite a bit. The results show in the LFS tanks a few days later when the mortality rate is seen in their tanks. That is one reason why it is a good idea to put fish on hold if the LFS will let you. When I order a fish, I tell the LFS I will acclimate it myself for that reason. I do not care for their method of acclimating fish. :( You may have not done anything wrong yourself or two acclimations using the above method in a relatively short time was too much for the fish.

Edited July 8, 2008 by Highland Reefer

[Coral Hind]

From my experience...the quick respiration you saw is normal for wrasses when they are excited/stressed. Your guy has made a long trip in the last few days. Rarely does a newly introduced fish eat anything so I would not stress out about him not eating right away.

 

The laying on the sand is also normal for a newly introduced wrasse, like playing dead. Most when introduced will swim and wedge them selves in a tight place and just sit for a few hours. Were the lights still on at 10pm when you saw him lying on his side? My Lunare Wrasse sleeps on his side in the same spot every night. My Six Line also sleeps on his side and makes a new mucous cocoon under the same shell every night. Wrasses go into a deeper sleep then other fish do so don't freak if he doesn't move when the lights come on. It takes awhile for them to get moving. Kind of like trying to get my teenager up.

[civitan.erichanson]

Again, thanks everyone. So I will adjust the salinity over the next two nights and let him be. He has some PVC pipe to lay in, but no sand. Given their sleeping and eating habits, is that a concern?

 

Thanks,

 

EEH

[Brian Ward]

Again, thanks everyone. So I will adjust the salinity over the next two nights and let him be. He has some PVC pipe to lay in, but no sand. Given their sleeping and eating habits, is that a concern?

 

Thanks,

 

EEH

 

like phisigs said, you'll want to adjust the QT salinity up over a couple weeks to match the main tank and then drip acclimate as described before. don't move from the hypo and then drip up to 1.025 in a couple hours. For your QT setup, PVC pipe should be fine. I would offer him a mix of large diameter and something smaller he can just fit in - that will give him the feel of wedging himself into a rock as was described earlier. fish need to be able to hide to feel safe.

[dzekunoi]

Good luck with the fish. Hopefully he'll be OK.

 

Just another advise - always QT your fish. It's better to be safe than sorry and it can really spare you a major headache. Without QT it's not a question if disaster might happen. It's a matter when.

[Gatortailale]

Unsure. He arrived that day, he was ordered for me - I did not check to see what happened to him while he was at the store. I should of checked the bag water salinity and PH.

 

next time you have a LFS order you a fish, have them acclimate the fish into their system and let it stay there a few days to adjust - unless your buying from the big R.

 

Sounds to me like fish was stressed b/w shipping, hitting shops tank for few hours, then getting added to your tank. That is a lot of different water for the fish to be in over a 24+ hour period.

 

Good luck, hope it works out - try keeping tank dark to limit stress and at this point, I wouldn't change water conditions any more till it settles more and starts acting more normal.

[civitan.erichanson]

Well, unless he has gone to the great aquarium in the sky when I get home tonight all this advice will definately help.

 

My QT tank is 30 gallons (that is all I have set up right now). Do people use 10 gallon and how do you maintain the water quality? When you are done using it -do you chuck the SW?

 

Thanks again for all of the input.

 

Eric.

[phisigs79]

water changes are key in a QT. i would did mine every other day

[Coral Hind]

The SW from the water change is garbage. It could have stuff in it such as parasites so it is not good for much else.

[civitan.erichanson]

The SW from the water change is garbage. It could have stuff in it such as parasites so it is not good for much else.

 

So between salt cost and H2O cost in my area (water bill above 200 w/o reef tank, 5:1 output on RODI means 150 Gallons down the drain for 30 gallon QT) every three months I should downsize to a smaller QT tank in the future - which brings me back to my previous question --

 

Is a 10G large enough for QT and how do people filter their QT tanks ?

 

Thanks.

[L8 2 RISE]

just a person with no experience chiming in:

 

From what I've seen, many people use smaller tanks for quarantine, probably between 10 and 30 gallons, it all depends on the fish, for example if your quarantining an 8 inch grouper, your probably not going to want to quarantine in a ten gallon tank. remember the fish isnt going to heal if it is under a lot of stress. I don't know much about the fish you have or it's size, but just think about that, apart from very large fish, a ten gallon should be fine for 3-4 weeks.

[civitan.erichanson]

Agreed. I am not planning on buying anything big, this Wrasse is 3" or just under. I would think 10 would be good, but I want to make sure I filter it well.

[SDBDRZ]

(water bill above 200 w/o reef tank, 5:1 output on RODI means 150 Gallons down the drain for 30 gallon QT)

 

 

You could always catch the RO waste and use it to wash clothes, water the flowers, etc.

 

 

Is a 10G large enough for QT and how do people filter their QT tanks ?

 

 

Depends completely on what you plan to QT. Larger fish will require a large QT tank.

 

I don't filter my QT tank when I use it, I put a small pump in for water circulation and just do a lot of frequent water changes. I take a couple gallons out of my main system and use it to change a couple gallons in the QT and I add a couple gallons of freshly made water to the main tank to replace what I tok out for the QT water change. I also have a few pieces of PVC in my QT tank for the fish to hide in.

[civitan.erichanson]

Alas, I came home tonight and my Dragonn Wrasse is no more. I am very sad. They are really beautiful fish. Someday I would like another one, but I think I need to wait a while. My wife is convinced that this is the wrong type of fish for my reef tank - maybe she is right.

 

Thanks for the advice everyone,

 

 

Eric.

[Coral Hind]

Sorry to hear the bad news.

 

I think the most important thing I would take away from this is to let the new arrival sit at the LFS for several days before taking it home.

 

Your wife is probably right. If you setup an aggressive reef you would be fine but in a normal reef tank it would eat your shrimps, crabs and snails. I had one that loved to flip rocks and corals over to get to the amphipods underneath.

Edited July 9, 2008 by Coral Hind

[Highland Reefer]

:(