Wiring Question

[WallyBackm]

Last night I purchased three waterproof boxes, 3 GFCI outlets, and three standard 3 prong plugs. My plan is to wire the three outlets directly above my sump and run wires from the outlets to the three prong plugs and connect the plugs to an American DJ switch panel.

 

My question is--do I just use Romex to wire these boxes, or some other type of wire? Anyone have any experience in this?

 

Thanks

[Brian Ward]

Last night I purchased three waterproof boxes, 3 GFCI outlets, and three standard 3 prong plugs. My plan is to wire the three outlets directly above my sump and run wires from the outlets to the three prong plugs and connect the plugs to an American DJ switch panel.

 

My question is--do I just use Romex to wire these boxes, or some other type of wire? Anyone have any experience in this?

 

Thanks

 

I would just use romex. 14/2 for 15A circuit, 12/2 for 20A circuit. You should consider stranded wire to connect the boxes to the DJ panel so the wires are more flexible.

[WallyBackm]

Thanks Brian. What do you mean by stranded wire? Sorry, I am electrically illiterate. Do you mean forgo using the three pronged plugs?

[Integral9]

I'm pretty sure he is referring to stranded wire as in wire that's like a rope as opposed to solid core wire which is just a solid piece of metal for a wire. Think of a rope vs. a solid pipe.

 

In general the solid core can carry more current, but it's much more expensive and hard to work with because it's so stiff. Stranded wire is stronger (tensile strength), more malleable (flexible w/out breaking), but the strands get in each other's way under load and prevent as much current from moving down the cable as a solid core wire can move. In general, 15A or more is usually a solid core wire in your home, but it doesn't have to be a solid core wire to carry 15A. That depends on the gauge (thickness in 1/x of inch ie. 8 gauge = 1/8 inch thick). The higher the gauge, the more current you can run down the wire. The wire should have an Amp rating on it to help you decide which gauge to use.

[Brian Ward]

Thanks Brian. What do you mean by stranded wire? Sorry, I am electrically illiterate. Do you mean forgo using the three pronged plugs?

 

Like Integral said... extension cords are made of stranded wire which is why they coil and flex easily. Romex is solid core which is why it's very stiff. I don't know what you have as far as 3-pronged plugs go - if you have molded plugs with wire already attached then you're fine, if you bought the plugs and wire separately and are assembling it then you should look for stranded wire so that the 3-prong plugs feel like extension cords.

[CHUBAKAH]

I'm pretty sure he is referring to stranded wire as in wire that's like a rope as opposed to solid core wire which is just a solid piece of metal for a wire. Think of a rope vs. a solid pipe.

 

In general the solid core can carry more current, but it's much more expensive and hard to work with because it's so stiff. Stranded wire is stronger (tensile strength), more malleable (flexible w/out breaking), but the strands get in each other's way under load and prevent as much current from moving down the cable as a solid core wire can move. In general, 15A or more is usually a solid core wire in your home, but it doesn't have to be a solid core wire to carry 15A. That depends on the gauge (thickness in 1/x of inch ie. 8 gauge = 1/8 inch thick). The higher the gauge, the more current you can run down the wire. The wire should have an Amp rating on it to help you decide which gauge to use.

 

If you are hard wiring ANYTHING in your home, it needs to be a solid core wire. 14-2 up to 15AMPS, and 12-2 for up to 30AMPS. Rule of thumb is up to twelve plugs per circuit up to 15AMPS, however simply calculate how many AMPS your pulling before you add 12 receptacle's. DO NOT under any circumstance use stranded wire to wire in anything, unless you want to call me to rebuild your home.

 

I am currently rebuilding 3 homes from illegal/improper wiring.

[Integral9]

If you are hard wiring ANYTHING in your home, it needs to be a solid core wire. 14-2 up to 15AMPS, and 12-2 for up to 30AMPS. Rule of thumb is up to twelve plugs per circuit up to 15AMPS, however simply calculate how many AMPS your pulling before you add 12 receptacle's. DO NOT under any circumstance use stranded wire to wire in anything, unless you want to call me to rebuild your home.

 

Good thing I used solid core to wire in my sconces.

 

I am currently rebuilding 3 homes from illegal/improper wiring.

 

Hope they weren't your homes. yikes!

[Origami]

Wally, are you wiring your home or your stand? If you're basically creating an extension cord with a boxed end that would mount in your stand (as I originally interpreted your post), you're OK to use stranded, I believe. If you're installing permanent wiring for your home, then you've got to use solid-core rated for the space and application.

Edited April 23, 2008 by Origami2547

[WallyBackm]

Origami, right, I am basically creating extension cords, so I can control what I want inside the pump with the switches from the American DJ unit.

 

See http://www.melevsreef.com/power_system.html last picture at bottom of Melev's page. This is his idea.

 

I would cover the wires as he did.

[ErikS]

Well I see a lot of solid core (whatever brand he used) on that page.................it certainly won't hurt to use it. It's fairly cheap & readily available - just a bit tougher to work with.

[dbartco]

btw, if all on the same circuit, need only the first outlet in the chain to be GFCI. Save you a couple of bucks

[WallyBackm]

Thanks Dbartco. This is true even though I am running three separate lines from the outlets to the American DJ?

[dbartco]

put that where you are plugging the dj's into.

 

You "should" have one as the first outlet in the line for anything you have plugged in for the tank.

[Highland Reefer]

After reading the posts, my imput was already stated.

Edited April 23, 2008 by Highland Reefer

[davelin315]

Doug's right, but if one thing goes, then everything in the chain goes, too. If you wire each separately, you can protect each individually.

[CHUBAKAH]

Hope they weren't your homes. yikes!

I am a insurance restoration general contractor who works for 50% of home owners that have natural disasters, and 50% of owners who do dumb s%&* and burn their house down.

 

Thanks for playing though.

 

Seems I may have misunderstood what was being done here. So many people call outlets, "plugs" I assumed that was the case. If you are wiring in new outlets that is one thing, but if you are just making up extension cords thats another.

[Brian Ward]

I am a insurance restoration general contractor who works for 50% of home owners that have natural disasters, and 50% of owners who do dumb s%&* and burn their house down.

 

Thanks for playing though.

 

Seems I may have misunderstood what was being done here. So many people call outlets, "plugs" I assumed that was the case. If you are wiring in new outlets that is one thing, but if you are just making up extension cords thats another.

 

 

 

I believe the primary difference is whether it's in the wall or outside the wall. Anything in the wall must be solid core - you want something that will withstand a lot since you can't see what's going on with it. Also, I'd consider changing the breaker on this circuit to ArcFault - that way you have some protection against burning the house down.

[Highland Reefer]

I agree with Brian. Pesonally I am a little confused as to exactly what the installation process is here. Is there just one circuit envolved or are there three separate circuits involved? Are you tapping into existing circuit(s) for power or are you going to run separate circuits from the panel box? The answers to these questions will determine different solutions to your problem. Personally, I would use solid wire for all installations possible. It may be harder to work with, but it is more durable in the long run and I feel is is much safer.

Edited April 24, 2008 by Highland Reefer

[Origami]

It definitely looks like solid-core NM cable used in the melevsreef application. It is a little less flexible but since you've got a semi-permanent installation inside your stand, solid core just be a little more difficult to work with initially and the length might be a little more critical as taking up slack would be a bit more of a pain with solid core. But once you had it installed, it would work fine. I think you could just as easily use some decent heavy-duty stranded that is made for extension cord applications and probably be just as good if not better (easier to work with, more flexibility so you're not forcing kinks to adjust your routing, a little more abrasion resistance, etc.).

 

As for durability, I think that (extension cord) stranded is made for applications requiring physical flexibility, survival through repeated flexes across a tight bend radius, etc . Solid core would find itself sorely lacking in that department and would fail far sooner. The same goes for abrasion resistance. Most solid core is sheathed for a permanent installation where long-term rubbing (after initial installation) is unlikely to be an issue. There are advantage to each in their different applications - that's why the two exist. For the same gauge and conductor material (copper), solid core should have less voltage drop per foot than stranded when carrying line power. (Unlikely to be an issue in a short run application like your stand.)

 

I'm gathering that because these "extension cords" are interior to the stand that these are short runs, too? Whatever path you opt to take, you might want to consider how you can better seal the plug (that you plan to install) housing to wire interface to prevent salt creep up into the plug housing. You may find that a shrouded plug will fit extension cord wire better than NM (non-metallic sheathed) Romex type cable. I've not really compared prices recently but I suspect that solid core is likely to be less expensive by the foot because you will probably find it easier to locate a bulk box of NM and would have to pull the stranded off of some by-the-foot reel at HD or Lowes.

 

Brian's right on though about Code: It's against code to permanently install extension cords (or stranded) into living structures (like the walls of houses and office buildings) for normal power distribution. There's nothing that would restrict you from wiring your "furniture" that way, though. After all, most of the pre-wired office workstations that I've seen are wired with stranded wire and that's analagous in the sense that it's a "permanent" installation into furniture.

Edited April 24, 2008 by Origami2547

[WallyBackm]

Thanks for all the info guys. Orgimai, perhaps we could talk offline? What I am trying to do here is basically plug the American DJ into the wall, and then have three extension cords plugged into the American DJ that run to three different outlets in the stand.