Crazy Kalk Accident

[bk_market]

Yesterday was so crazy for me. I just want to share with you guys about my kalk accident that almost destroy my tank.

 

I was cleaning the tank in the afternoon. I had a bucket of fresh mix saltwater so I decide to take my pH probe out of my sump to put it in the bucket real quick to meansure the pH there before doing the water change.

 

Now while waiting for the water to mix I decide to go out Ace Hardware to buy some PVC. When i leave the house I still have my pH probe inside the 5g bucket. Anyway it took me about 45 mins to go there and come back. When I get home my sump is flooding on the floor. my kalk reactor is screaming sucking air out of the empty Ro/Di holding tank. Apparently the controller was reading the low pH on the 5g bucket and start pumping kalk into my tank. It pumped all 5g into the tank. The water was cloudy like crazy with white flake everywhere. I think it dumped about 2.5 cup of kalk in there. I checked the pH and i think it was crazy high. I couldnt see any fish nor anything inside my tank. I immidiately disconnect the main display with the sump. I take out about 30g of water from my 90g main tank. I immediately move the coral down low so they are under water. Good thing I was about to do water change so i have 20g fresh Ro/Di ready to go. The water was still so cloudy after that, pH was still high i think it was like 9+, my temperature dropped to from ~80 to ~70.

 

Everything happened at 3:00pm and at 10 pm it was still cloudy. for now everything is still doing fine so hopefully I can pull through this. I didnt get water fast enough for the water change in my sump and fuge so all my pods population are dead. Not sure if this will have any effect on the cheato in my 10g fuge. Around 2:00am I finish getting all the water into my sump/fuge and maintank to start running again. The moment I start pumping water I see dead pods floating around all over the place.

 

This is the scariest moment since the day I start this hobby :(

Edited February 26, 2008 by bk_market

[flowerseller]

When this happens, don't change water, unless you drain the tank empty and refil.

This is one of those rare occasions were the solution is NOT dilution.

You are much better served waiting it out, often less then 24 hrs. Then doing several small W/C vaccuuming up the kalk preciptant from the tank.

It's common knowledge that changing too much water too fast is often more detrimental.

[bk_market]

I did 20g water change from 3:00pm to 10:00pm. It was 10g then 5g and then 5g. I had to wait for the filter to make some water. It was so cloudy I couldnt even see my fish at all.

[flowerseller]

Ok but you're wasting your time thinking you will dilute it.

Not going to happen.

All you're doing is stiring it back into solution when you add new.

Turn off all internal circulation except the return.

The kalk will fall out of solution all by itself faster than you will ever dilute it.

Then you vaccuum it up.

[YBeNormal]

If there is a good news story here it is that your topoff container was only 5g. I cringe when people describe having their ATO hooked directly to their RO/DI unit (TDS creep issues and potential for flooding) or to a 40g Rubbermaid container filled with water (another potential for flooding).

 

I always recommend that the topoff container be small enough that even if it all got dumped into the tank it wold not overflow and salinity would not be drastically changed. Yes, this means having to fill the topoff container more often but it's well worth it for the extra safety margin. I have a 7g topoff container on my ~180g system (2 tanks, fuge and sump) and I rarely fill it beyond the 5g mark.

 

I agree with Chip though. You would have been better off letting the kalk settle then vacuuming it out. Lesson learned if it ever happens again!

[dandy7200]

You got good advice about what to do (or not do) immediately.

 

Now tomorrow, reevaluate your top off. Adding kalk by a controller based on ph is not a real good idea, probes can go bad, be exposed to air, or be manually removed. Best bet is to use a float switch or a timer (or both) and run all your top off through the kalk stirrer to your tank. Keep those float switches clean every time you clean your stirrer.

[dhoch]

Or use a dosing pump and do timed controlled top off... MUCH MUCH less chance for issues to crop up this way (float swtiches notoriously go bad just like ph probes).

 

Dave

[Highland Reefer]

You got good advice about what to do (or not do) immediately.

 

Now tomorrow, reevaluate your top off. Adding kalk by a controller based on ph is not a real good idea, probes can go bad, be exposed to air, or be manually removed. Best bet is to use a float switch or a timer (or both) and run all your top off through the kalk stirrer to your tank. Keep those float switches clean every time you clean your stirrer.

 

 

 

 

 

I recently started dosing with Kalk in my top-off. I am using vinegar at the rate where you don't have to be concerned about exposure to air. I was thinking if I had a small top-off reserve tank and then dripped the kalk solution into this reserve tank, this would help prevent this accident. I would think this would allow a larger tank to drip into the top-off reserve. Any problem with doing this.

 

 

I feel for you about losing a lot of stuff. I have made mistakes in the past and lost everything. I guess this is what makes many of us so careful & ask alot of questions.

[flowerseller]

I am using vinegar at the rate where you don't have to be concerned about exposure to air.

 

Don't worry about the vinegar going bad being exposed to air, it's really cheap, just like the good kalk.

Plus, at a certain rate when mixed with oil, it's great on salads or in marinaides.

[davelin315]

Vinegar contains phosphates from what I understand, so it's not a good option. I wouldn't drip it into the top off, you're only diluting the kalk then and getting an inconsistent feed as it won't supplement as well as you'd like. Just get yourself a cheap dosing pump. I use an aqualifter and have it hooked up to a timer. I use two inline with each other and have a siphon break. It's only on when I want it to be on. If it fails, it's not a big deal as it's 35 gallons of water through a kalk reactor TOPS that will drip in only at the rate of about 3-5 gallons per hour. Even if the kalk goes into the system without being dissolved, it won't do a lot of harm. You've got tons of great suggestions here from lots of people.

[Highland Reefer]

Vinegar contains phosphates from what I understand, so it's not a good option. I wouldn't drip it into the top off, you're only diluting the kalk then and getting an inconsistent feed as it won't supplement as well as you'd like. Just get yourself a cheap dosing pump. I use an aqualifter and have it hooked up to a timer. I use two inline with each other and have a siphon break. It's only on when I want it to be on. If it fails, it's not a big deal as it's 35 gallons of water through a kalk reactor TOPS that will drip in only at the rate of about 3-5 gallons per hour. Even if the kalk goes into the system without being dissolved, it won't do a lot of harm. You've got tons of great suggestions here from lots of people.

 

The articles I have read regarding mixing kalk & vinegar have all suggested this mixture helps to reduce nitrates and phosphates. I would be interested in reading whatever you have that implies the opposite regarding phosphates. Thanks for the other information.

[mogurnda]

Vinegar contains phosphates from what I understand, so it's not a good option. I wouldn't drip it into the top off, you're only diluting the kalk then and getting an inconsistent feed as it won't supplement as well as you'd like. Just get yourself a cheap dosing pump. I use an aqualifter and have it hooked up to a timer. I use two inline with each other and have a siphon break. It's only on when I want it to be on. If it fails, it's not a big deal as it's 35 gallons of water through a kalk reactor TOPS that will drip in only at the rate of about 3-5 gallons per hour. Even if the kalk goes into the system without being dissolved, it won't do a lot of harm. You've got tons of great suggestions here from lots of people.

Vinegar contains carbon, hydrogen and oxygen. No phosphorous. It is an excellent way of getting more kalk into solution and helping to maintain alkalinity by acting as a carbon source. In principle, it can nelp nitrifying/denitrifying bacteria do their job if they are limited by lack of carbon.

[bk_market]

can someone give me the command to turn on the aqualifter pump for 3 mins every hour from 8 am to 9 pm and then 5 mins every hour from 9:00pm to 8:00am overnight.

 

Also am I require to have 2x pH probe in my controller to set up a running calcium reactor? My Aquajr only have 1 which im using to measure the pH in my main display. Is it necessary to measure the pH in main display or it better to use this pH probe for measure the pH inside the calcium reactor?

[jnguyen4007]

can someone give me the command to turn on the aqualifter pump for 3 mins every hour from 8 am to 9 pm and then 5 mins every hour from 9:00pm to 8:00am overnight.

 

Also am I require to have 2x pH probe in my controller to set up a running calcium reactor? My Aquajr only have 1 which im using to measure the pH in my main display. Is it necessary to measure the pH in main display or it better to use this pH probe for measure the pH inside the calcium reactor?

 

 

To set the timer for the pump, it would look something like this:

 

If Time > 08:00 Then PM1 ON

If Time > 08:03 Then PM1 OFF

If Time > 09:00 Then PM1 ON

If Time > 09:03 Then PM1 OFF

 

You would do this for every 3 min interval as you wanted. Then set it again the same way for the 9PM to 8AM with a 5 min interval.

[flowerseller]

You could also use something like

OSC 003/060 ON/OFF Then KAL ON .

On for 3 Off for 60 mins.

Not sure you'll ever benifit fron the 2 min change at night.

This only takes up 1 line of statements, there is a limit.

[gastone]

My concern with using vinegar in limewater is two-fold. First, as an acid (with a ph of around 2.4) it will counteract the benefit of kalk (which in theory should help to maintain/raise the ph). Secondly, as it an organic it can degrade/foul. So it is fine if you want to fiddle with it every day via adding it to your top off resevoir, so long as it all gets used. If added to a large top off resevoir that doesn't get depleted on a daily basis, it will eventually foul.

 

JMO.

 

Garrett.

[mogurnda]

My concern with using vinegar in limewater is two-fold. First, as an acid (with a ph of around 2.4) it will counteract the benefit of kalk (which in theory should help to maintain/raise the ph). Secondly, as it an organic it can degrade/foul. So it is fine if you want to fiddle with it every day via adding it to your top off resevoir, so long as it all gets used. If added to a large top off resevoir that doesn't get depleted on a daily basis, it will eventually foul.

 

JMO.

 

Garrett.

That

[gastone]

Dave, I dose through via a dosing pump, on 1 minute every 12. May not necessarily raise the ph, but in theory it should help to maintain. As one concern of mine is keeping ph up I'd rather not add an acid to the tank to lower.

 

I used to do the supersaturated limewater (by using vinegar), but it doesn't work in my current setup.

 

G.

[davelin315]

The articles I have read regarding mixing kalk & vinegar have all suggested this mixture helps to reduce nitrates and phosphates. I would be interested in reading whatever you have that implies the opposite regarding phosphates. Thanks for the other information.

 

Wasn't based on an article, based on what someone said here in this thread I posted a couple of years back: http://www.wamas.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=6195&hl=. I was trying to figure out if a vinegar reactor would be feasible and one response that I got was that PO4 was part of acetic acid. I got around to looking at it again and researching this, and I don't see any evidence of this, so, as I said, it was my understanding, but it looks like it was a wrong assumption!