Gurnie November 13, 2007 Share November 13, 2007 I just added my 2nd saddleback clownfish into the tank two days ago. So far they seem to be getting along (occasional chasing but and it looks like the smaller guy has a tiny bite on his back fin, but nothing serious). They do this cute thing where they'll swim on their sides and twitch, then swim on their other sides, and do a twitch. Is this some sort of mating dance? The new fish is bigger, and I assume is female (or in the process of her change). The smaller one is about 1 year old and doesn't act as aggressive as the larger fish. The larger fish is also a pig, he/she might scare the smaller one when it comes to chow time, but the small one still gets a chance to eat. Thanks!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitro Junkie November 13, 2007 Share November 13, 2007 It is my understanding this "dance" or shaking is them establishing dominance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st9z November 13, 2007 Share November 13, 2007 my clown fish does this one weird thing where it dives into the sand and shakes. Any idea why it would do that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurnie November 13, 2007 Author Share November 13, 2007 So how does one establish male and female? Does the "female" develop a viewable ovipositor ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gastone November 13, 2007 Share November 13, 2007 So how does one establish male and female? Does the "female" develop a viewable ovipositor ? http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.p...threadid=282136 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extreme_tooth_decay November 13, 2007 Share November 13, 2007 (edited) So how does one establish male and female? Does the "female" develop a viewable ovipositor ? The female is the big mean one who takes all the food and won't let the other around the anemone. Edited November 13, 2007 by extreme_tooth_decay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurnie November 13, 2007 Author Share November 13, 2007 (edited) Thank-you edit: after reading this, i hope i did not get two female clowns by accident. The original fish is about 1.5" long and was kept in the tank by itself for at least a month. When i first introduced the two fish, they locked mouths but have not done since. They have done the dominance dance a few times, and the larger fish usually chases the smaller, but usually stops (but the smaller does not do the dance inorder to get the larger to stop) Typical, or does it sound like two females? Edited November 13, 2007 by Gurnie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmward99 November 13, 2007 Share November 13, 2007 To my understanding.Even if you have two females the less dominate will eventually turn into a male if he is not already.Or if you have two males the more dominate will turn into a female eventually.Someone chime in and correct me if I am wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitro Junkie November 13, 2007 Share November 13, 2007 To my understanding.Even if you have two females the less dominate will eventually turn into a male if he is not already.Or if you have two males the more dominate will turn into a female eventually.Someone chime in and correct me if I am wrong. that is my understanding also Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurnie November 13, 2007 Author Share November 13, 2007 Thank-goodness. I had to drive all the way to rockville just to get the new fish. I'd be totally bummed if I had to give it up. What's with all the NOVA stores not carrying black saddleback clowns :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zotzer November 13, 2007 Share November 13, 2007 Once a clownfish is female, it will not "revert" back to being male. I'd be concerned. If you've had the small one for a year, by itself, it could very well be female. Usually, the larger, dominant clown will *become* the female. But you very well could have two female clownfish on your hands. If that's the case, one will end up dead. Where is Scott? He's the expert!!! How long until a lone saddleback will become female? I think a year old may be pushing it. The safe bet would be to take back the big/new fish and find a smaller juvenile one. Tracy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurnie November 13, 2007 Author Share November 13, 2007 (edited) Once a clownfish is female, it will not "revert" back to being male. I'd be concerned. If you've had the small one for a year, by itself, it could very well be female. Usually, the larger, dominant clown will *become* the female. But you very well could have two female clownfish on your hands. If that's the case, one will end up dead. Where is Scott? He's the expert!!! How long until a lone saddleback will become female? I think a year old may be pushing it. The safe bet would be to take back the big/new fish and find a smaller juvenile one. Tracy Problem is, i'm not 100% how old the fish is, and i think the saddleback did have a friend (when living with the previous tank owner). I think i'm going to have to watch them closely. Lemme email the previous owner and see what he says In terms of "fish attitude" the smaller will just kinda float and fish smile at me, while the large will turbo launch itself towards the glass (in MY direction), snap at the glass and then back off (note it won't actually run into the glass). Would photos help? There is a significant size difference I will say. The larger saddleback (the new fish) is at least an inch bigger compared to the smaller. My LFS claimed that they could revert back if the small female was a young female. Edited November 13, 2007 by Gurnie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treesprite November 13, 2007 Share November 13, 2007 I'm not so sure adding in a clown to a pre-existing one is going to get you a mated pair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wreck November 13, 2007 Share November 13, 2007 By your descriptions it fits into the mold of the bigger one being the female(bigger, more aggressive, territorial) and the smaller one being a male (smaller and more docile) or still a juvenile. I just checked in Joyce Wilkerson's "Clownfishes" ( a great book if you're interested in breeding clownfish) and she states that once a clownfish becomes female she cannot revert back to being a male but a male can become a female. I would watch them carefully and if they fight a lot wthout the smaller one running away or submitting they may be both females. Wreck Problem is, i'm not 100% how old the fish is, and i think the saddleback did have a friend (when living with the previous tank owner). I think i'm going to have to watch them closely. Lemme email the previous owner and see what he says In terms of "fish attitude" the smaller will just kinda float and fish smile at me, while the large will turbo launch itself towards the glass (in MY direction), snap at the glass and then back off (note it won't actually run into the glass). Would photos help? There is a significant size difference I will say. The larger saddleback (the new fish) is at least an inch bigger compared to the smaller. My LFS claimed that they could revert back if the small female was a young female. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zotzer November 13, 2007 Share November 13, 2007 There is a significant size difference I will say. The larger saddleback (the new fish) is at least an inch bigger compared to the smaller. My LFS claimed that they could revert back if the small female was a young female. The LFS is wrong. Females can't revert back, but asexual juvies can go either way. If the clown was kept alone for a year, it could very well be a female by now. If it is over a year old and has been alone for as little as a month, it could have turned female. If it had a more dominant fish with it, it could be male or a-sexual (I think). A more accurate background would definitely help. Tracy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurnie November 14, 2007 Author Share November 14, 2007 (edited) The previous owner did say that he got the fish Nov 2006 i hope these help: Edited November 14, 2007 by Gurnie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zotzer November 14, 2007 Share November 14, 2007 (edited) Not sure there is any way to tell from a picture. Did the previous owner mention if it was kept with another saddleback? At least now you know that the fish is over a year old. I have no clue about the maturation rate of saddleback clowns, but if you had it housed alone for a month or more, I think it is a risky proposition to pair it with anything other than a juvenile. Again, I am no expert, but have read up on the subject. You may want to pm Traveller7 and ask him to chime in on this thread. Tracy I forgot to add.....they are awfully cute! Let's just make sure you end up with two living ones! Edited November 14, 2007 by zotzer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurnie November 14, 2007 Author Share November 14, 2007 (edited) Previous owner said it was kept alone for that year. The fish will occationally swim together, but for the most part, smaller fish swims at the top, larger at the bottom. earlier the smaller fish did the dance inorder to prevent the larger guy from chasing it. I'll see if i can get a better photo. Traveller's PM box is full edit: here are a few more edit edit: I watched them this morning before going to work (wednesday, so day 5 with the two together). Lots of dancing by the smaller fish, some dancing by the big fish. Both fish were hungry and snapped up the food i gave them (though the larger fish ate far more). Big fish did most of the chasing, sometimes little fish stopped the chasing by dancing. Seems like male/female behavior. I have not seen them bite since day 1 (and that one time when they were first introduced) Edited November 14, 2007 by Gurnie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traveller7 November 14, 2007 Share November 14, 2007 Traveller's PM box is fullIt's all the hate mail :D From the picture they both appear immature. It is quite possible they are going to go through a fairly intense sort it out phase. In my experience black saddlebacks are quite cantankerous and rule breakers on the pair bonding topic. I don't think I have this photo on WAMAS, but this group of 7 whittled down the pairings quite aggressively: http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/14...ddle_colony.JPG The actions described support the young pair concept, larger will likely win. Be ready for anything, i.e. jump outs, etc. fwiw: clowns can spend years in the juvenile stage, age really does not factor into it. fwiw2: environment triggers female maturity, it is up the clown to decide the trigger. I.e. absence of dominant female, etc. It does not always follow the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurnie November 14, 2007 Author Share November 14, 2007 It's all the hate mail :D From the picture they both appear immature. It is quite possible they are going to go through a fairly intense sort it out phase. What in the photos show that they are immature? Size? Coloration? Thank you so much for your help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traveller7 November 14, 2007 Share November 14, 2007 What in the photos show that they are immature? Size? Coloration? Thank you so much for your help! They yellow faces tend to fade as they mature. Saddlebacks get much larger then most folks realize, 4" in captivity is not unusual for an adult female, 3" for an adult male. Have seen a few pushing 5". I would not try to keep a pair of saddlebacks in less then 40gal of space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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