jnguyen4007 June 19, 2007 June 19, 2007 I have a 30 gal tank with an overflow box that has two 1" output. I have a 20 gal long tank set up with 3 chambers. One for the skimmer, fuge, and return. Here are my questions: 1. Should I set up the sump in this order: fuge, skimmer, return or skimmer, fuge, return? 2. Since I have two output from the main tank, should I have both outputs going into where the skimmer is or should I have one output go to where the skimmer is and the other to the fuge? Thanks. James
steveoutlaw June 19, 2007 June 19, 2007 Neither. You should set it up as skimmer, return, fuge. Basically you want raw tank water going to both the skimmer chamber and the fuge. When I had mine set up I had both of the drains going to the skimmer chamber but I Tee'd off of one of the drains and had it go to the sump. I was able to control the flow to the fuge by a ball valve (you don't want a lot of flow through the fuge).
yauger June 19, 2007 June 19, 2007 another idea for the return is plum in a SQID so basically one pump going into the SQID and 2 outputs for your returns. A SQID will alternate the water creating a wave like effect.
jnguyen4007 June 19, 2007 Author June 19, 2007 Steve, So you don't recommending having water from the fuge to go into the skimmer before it goes back up to the main tank? James
bk_market June 19, 2007 June 19, 2007 I dont think u want to skim out the pods and nutrition from the fuge.
fab June 19, 2007 June 19, 2007 If you are trying to produce a food chain with your refugium, then you do not want to skim its output. Presumably you would like your refugium to act as a device to remove nitrates, et al, from your display tank. To do this you can use the display tank water as a food source to the refugium. Therefore you would not want to skim the water that you pass into to the refugium on its input side. That is why you want to go from your display tank in parallel to both your skimmer and your refugium. Run the refugium output back into your sump where it will not get sucked up into the skimmer before it returns to the display tank. Then both the skimmed water and the refugium output water return back to the display tank together. Note that the food chain recirculates between the display tank and the refugium. Likewise water circulates between the display tank and the skimmer. The two circulations patterns do come together in the return pump on the way back to the display tank. fab
jnguyen4007 June 19, 2007 Author June 19, 2007 Fab, Your explanation in combination with Steve made things much clearer. I understand now. Thanks so much for your explanations. Since my overflow has two output, shall I put a valve on one of it to reduce the flow from it into the fuge then? James
Rascal June 19, 2007 June 19, 2007 I would go skimmer --> fuge --> return. Agree that if your fuge is intended to produce food for your display, you don't want to skim its output. IMO though, you will get more out of your skimmer if you give it maximum exposure to the all of the "dirty" water coming from your display. You will still have more than enough nutrients left in your water after the skimmer section for the fuge to perform its intended tasks.
jnguyen4007 June 19, 2007 Author June 19, 2007 Should I also put a valve in place to reduce the flow into the fuge as well? James
Rascal June 19, 2007 June 19, 2007 Should I also put a valve in place to reduce the flow into the fuge as well? James Depends on how much flow you have going through there compared to how much you want, which in turn depends on how you set it up and what you are trying to achieve. The answer may be different depending on if you have a DSB, lots of rubble, chaeto vs. other types of macro, etc. . . Many conflicting opinions on this, but IMHO the conventional wisdom recommendation of 3x the volume of the refugium is generally too low. If you have sand you obviously don't want so much flow that it gets blown all over the place, but you can also prevent this by the way you direct the flow in the refugium. The possibilities are endless, but return manifolds with lots of outlets, even spray bars can work well in this application.
treesprite June 19, 2007 June 19, 2007 I was trying to figure this out before I started building mine, and decided skimmer-fuge-return because of not wanting to skim out food.
jnguyen4007 June 19, 2007 Author June 19, 2007 Depends on how much flow you have going through there compared to how much you want, which in turn depends on how you set it up and what you are trying to achieve. The answer may be different depending on if you have a DSB, lots of rubble, chaeto vs. other types of macro, etc. . . Many conflicting opinions on this, but IMHO the conventional wisdom recommendation of 3x the volume of the refugium is generally too low. If you have sand you obviously don't want so much flow that it gets blown all over the place, but you can also prevent this by the way you direct the flow in the refugium. The possibilities are endless, but return manifolds with lots of outlets, even spray bars can work well in this application. My plan was to have chaeto in the fuge area and that's pretty much it. I heard that it's better to have a slower rate going into the fuge area and more to the skimmer so it can do more of the work. That's why I have to ask to see what is the general concensus is on the set up. James
fab June 19, 2007 June 19, 2007 Rascal, conventional wisdom recommendation of 3x the volume of the refugium That is an interesting rule of thumb. Do you remember where you got it from? I would think that going higher in flow would blow out the tiny critters if the refugium has any; e.g., rotifers, copepods, amphipods. If you're just looking for nitrate export in the refugium, as in an algal scrubber, then higher flows would be fine and the skimmer could be allowed to polish the refugium output. fab
Rascal June 20, 2007 June 20, 2007 Rascal, That is an interesting rule of thumb. Do you remember where you got it from? No. I just remember reading and/or hearing that when I was first setting mine up. I flow about 500 gph through my (roughly) 30 gallon fuge and I don't think I am blowing anything out of it. There are still low flow areas and I have quite a bit of rubble and chaeto in there, so the little fellas have plenty to hang onto.
jnguyen4007 June 20, 2007 Author June 20, 2007 That's good to know that I don't have to worry about reducing the flow rate into the fuge. One last question. I have a mag 9 (?) pump, I believe that's what it is, that I can use as a return pump to main tank. since the distance travel is only a couple of feet at most, is this pump an overkill? I was thinking of doing one or two thing. One is to put a valve in place to reduce the return flow rate. The other is to tee it off and have the return go into two directions. What do you think of this idea? James
Rascal June 20, 2007 June 20, 2007 (edited) That's good to know that I don't have to worry about reducing the flow rate into the fuge. One last question. I have a mag 9 (?) pump, I believe that's what it is, that I can use as a return pump to main tank. since the distance travel is only a couple of feet at most, is this pump an overkill? I was thinking of doing one or two thing. One is to put a valve in place to reduce the return flow rate. The other is to tee it off and have the return go into two directions. What do you think of this idea? James Check out the head loss calculator on reef central to get a pretty good idea of how much flow the pump will put out depending on what you do (it factors in height, diameter of plumbing, number of elbows, etc. . . .). Assuming you get somewhere b/n 750-850 gph, is this overkill? Depends on what you mean. I definitely do not think that is too much circulation for a 30 gallon tank, as long as you spread it out through a number of outlets. On the other hand, as far as the amount of turnover through your sump, you would be at more than 20X total system volume which seems to be a little more than most prefer if I remember right. I think flowerseller was collecting some stats on this a while back. Check these out. http://www.wamas.org/forums/index.php?show...=sump++turnover http://www.wamas.org/forums/index.php?show...=sump++turnover http://www.wamas.org/forums/index.php?show...=sump++turnover Edited June 20, 2007 by Rascal
Alieu07 June 20, 2007 June 20, 2007 I think skimmer-->fuge--->return is okay Agree......this is what i have with my diy 30g skimmer-->fuge--->return and 2x1" drain direct to the skimmer section with no valve. Hope this help
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