issues with tank related to salt change

[jamal]

i am having nitrate problems. it is at 25ppm right now which i believe is partly why my sps corals arent doing well and dying. i was doing water changes with my usual salt reefcrystals when i ran out. i purchased a box of io salt knowing that i had alot of water changes planned and i was using distilled water. so i have been using it and my nitrates havent been going down. i used the idea on marc levenson's site about dilluting and replacing the water as opposed to a standard water change. i was told that the salt change made things worse and that i should let the tank settle which makes since but what about the nitrates. what do you guys recommend

[shawns]

although your nitrates are a little high, i think the root of your problem--sps looking sickly--is switching salts quickly. you have to consider the fact that the water chemistry is RAPIDLY changed when you switch salts to fast. johnny@brk once told me that he made a 100% change in salt. he lost nearly everything in his tank and his ammonia went through the roof! he told me that the tank water had bound metals and by changing salts he had unbound these metals that was in his tank water. the inhabitants expierenced too much stress and it was like armageddon in his tank! im not tell you that what happened to him is going to happen to you, but you do need to consider what happens to the water chemistry when a sudden change, like changing salt 100%, occurs.

w/ that all said you need to make a call.

 

1. let things settle like others said. that way there is SOME stability in the tank water.

 

2. do a massive water change w/ the old salt to try to flush the new salt along w/ whatever other crap may be in the tank water.

 

i like the first idea myself.

 

good luck and keep us posted!

johnny, feel free to correct my story since i used it as a point of reference.

[jamal]

ok i will let the salt settle but i think i will switch back to reef crystals as it seems to make my corals happier. how should i go about switching back and how long should i wait before doing this

[rooroo]

Reef Crystals is Instand Ocean, just with a few extra trace elements (I think, unless I'm getting my salts mixed up). So I wouldn't think the salt would cause the issue, I could be completely wrong though.

 

FWIW, I switched from IO to RC to Oceanic, then to Tropic Marin for a long time, then back to IO with no adverse affects at all. Except maybe feeding an algae bloom when switching from TM to IO. I also don't have SPS, so that may be how I can switch salts around. I try to not make a habit of it.

[kngfisher]

Reef Crystals is Instand Ocean, just with a few extra trace elements (I think, unless I'm getting my salts mixed up). So I wouldn't think the salt would cause the issue, I could be completely wrong though.

 

FWIW, I switched from IO to RC to Oceanic, then to Tropic Marin for a long time, then back to IO with no adverse affects at all. Except maybe feeding an algae bloom when switching from TM to IO. I also don't have SPS, so that may be how I can switch salts around. I try to not make a habit of it.

 

I went from IO to Seachem Reef very slowly .... spaced it out over maybe 10+ water changes.....and am in the process of changing from SeaChem Reef to Reef crystals....again, very slowly. I do have some SPS frags, some LPS frags and two leathers and have been sucessful before but the key is do things slowly if you can....I know, too late now but maybe others can learn for your events.....is things have started to die-off, switching back will not stop the process.....agree with the "let things settle" approach too. Nothing you can do now but wait.

[quazi]

I too have changed salts with 20% water changes without adverse problems. I used to use IO (20 years ago), switched to Tropic Marin in 1994 or so (which I would still use if it weren't so expensive), played around with Sea Sea, and Hw Marine mix, for a while and went back to Tropic Marin for the price and quality. I switched to Oceanic in early 2006 because it seemed really easy to use quickly (dissolves very quickly), switch to IO in October 2006 because I had so many problems with Oceanic (later I realized that my RO/DI filters need to be changed and that my TDS was high. I believe that was a the real problem, so I cannot criticize the salt). I have been using IO since and performing regular 20-30% water changes with it. It works great. I never had a die off issue or any other problems related to the salt changes.

[traveller7]

..... he told me that the tank water had bound metals and by changing salts he had unbound these metals that was in his tank water. ....

Supposedly, that is the EDTA or lack of EDTA effect. Most salts have it, some don't. Crystal Sea Marine Mix is one that supposedly does not have EDTAs, use caution when switching over.

[rooroo]

I do 5-10% water changes weekly so I guess I really change salts slowly too.

 

But yes, I would imagine if the cause were the salt, switching back to the other salt would make things worse, not better.

[jamal]

so if i want to switch back to reef crystals i should wait until i am almost done with the io salt and then mix them together in subsequent water changes progressively adding more RC salt and less IO till the IO salt is gone and then stick with RC salt?

[dandy7200]

I can tell when I get a frag from someone that uses a differant salt then me (IO). Takes about a month or longer to recover from the transfer. Doing that to the whole tank would pretty much toast the color and PE on most SPS corals for a good deal of time. A couple months and they will adjust but just not worth it IMO. Why are you changing salts to begin with? The cost differance to buy IO vs RC is not that great and to make matters worse your doing it when you have "alot of water changes to do". I would continue the change at this point and stick with IO. You have a big tank and it will be much cheaper in the long run to find another way to suppliment the supposed lower levels of elements in the water chemistry.

I have to agree with you though on 25ppm nitrates killing SPS. That # is about 24ppm to high. There may be other things going on as well but it's nearly impossible for SPS to thrive at these levels IME.

[jamal]

dan, what do you dose to make up for elements missed? also my ca tends to be about 500ish with RC salt. is IO salt high in ca as well?

[dandy7200]

Seachem Reef Complete in freshly mixed saltwater. 1T/10 gallons takes the MG up to 1300 and CA up to 420 when you mix to 1.026 SG. Alk is already nice so no need to touch that. The only additive I have ever found that does both of these elements AND has a foil tamper seal on the container. You could use MAG flake and DOW flake as well and do this even cheaper but the Seachem stuff is pretty cheap as it is so I eliminate the hassle of one more thing to make

I see on your sig line you already make 3part so you have the ingredients already, just use this calculator to figure out how much to add to your freshly mixed water to get the levels you want.

[jamal]

well my mag is high above 1300 and alk is usually at about 9dkh but my alk tends to be high above 500 so i dont need more of that. i mean like trace elements and other things that people may add

[dandy7200]

well my mag is high above 1300 and alk is usually at about 9dkh but my alk tends to be high above 500 so i dont need more of that. i mean like trace elements and other things that people may add

 

What it tends to be will be differant when you change salt

[jamal]

yea i gotta figure out what its gonna be with the new salt. but do people add other supplements that are known to be essential? i can just add more of the solution for those three

[johnnybv]

Supposedly, that is the EDTA or lack of EDTA effect. Most salts have it, some don't. Crystal Sea Marine Mix is one that supposedly does not have EDTAs, use caution when switching over.

Scott is 100% on the Crystal sea marine mix, I can attest to that!! It took my entire tank in 12 hours, of course I changed more than the reccomended 5% at a time.

The IO vs reef crystals both have EDTA and are very similiar salts so I would be hard pressed to say that is the reason you are having issues.

john

[YBeNormal]

do people add other supplements that are known to be essential?

 

See Myth #12 in this article.

[jamal]

thats what i thought which was the only reason i tried the change. i believe the amount changed because i was treating the nitrate problem. also i just changed my actinic lighting so that was prolly a factor and it all combined as my acans and most other non sps corals are doing well

[F&Fmgr]

Im using CS Bioassay on all of my store tanks and all of my service tanks. Switched immediatly from IO...no issues. 10% water changes weekly as a ritual.