dzekunoi January 3, 2007 January 3, 2007 After the tragic death of my wonderful she-clown time ago (she jumped out of a hspital tank her hubby grew and grew and grew and I guess got to be a female now. She lives in a big LTA, became meaner and bolder. I got a juvenile clarkii to arrange a marriage and after a QT he is finally in the main. Thinks do not work exactly as I planned. The little one is absolutely facinated by the anemone and trying to get there. He shows his submition and makes cute faces. The female does not want to share her housing. She chases the little one away. But she does not harm him (it?). He comes - she charges - he darts away - she goes back to the anemone - he comes again. And this scenario for entire day! The question is - is it normal? Do I have a chance to see a happy family or I need to try another juvenile? How long should I wait to assume they will not pair?
dhoch January 3, 2007 January 3, 2007 I don't offer any advice Inna, but am curious so I'll tag along. Dave
ChrisTran January 3, 2007 January 3, 2007 i would temporary remove the female to another tank for couple days to give the smaller male a chance to host in the anemone. When you re add the female to the tank there might be a chance they both will share the host and pair up.
traveller7 January 3, 2007 January 3, 2007 The little one is absolutely facinated by the anemone and trying to get there. He shows his submition and makes cute faces. The female does not want to share her housing. She chases the little one away. But she does not harm him (it?). He comes - she charges - he darts away - she goes back to the anemone - he comes again. And this scenario for entire day! The question is - is it normal? Do I have a chance to see a happy family or I need to try another juvenile? How long should I wait to assume they will not pair? Sounds like typical early pairing behavior for most clown species. The pair bonding process can take days to months to never. Just too many variables involved with a genus which goes through quick sex changes and have long lives. Leave them together until the more dominant specimen really does some damage, not just torn fins, but real damage. Females need to clearly establish dominance and while behavior will lessen over time, there will always be little reminders of who is boss. Separation and allowing the less dominant specimen to settle in, is counter to establishing a pair, in fact with numerous species it is almost a certain guarantee of failure; do not remove the suspected female. I suspect the two fish described will be more amiable in much less then 90 days. In fact, if you check on them a few hours after lights out, you will likely find the little guy sleeping in the anemone with the female. In addition, I would expect both of them to go through some color changes and a growth spurt if they are fed plenty of food. fwiw: Although it does not apply to Inna
dzekunoi January 3, 2007 Author January 3, 2007 Thanks Scott, nice to get a good advice from an expert And good reading too. Hope things work out fine. So far the female is not overly agressive (well, not killing) so I think it all just might work.
traveller7 January 3, 2007 January 3, 2007 JHardman certainly has some great clownfish posts So far the female is not overly agressive (well, not killing) so I think it all just might work. Me too ;>)
dzekunoi January 9, 2007 Author January 9, 2007 For those who are interested - update As far as tha female did not welcome the little one into the mansion he decided to settle in a nearby cottage - small GBTA. He is happy there but keeps coming to the Big anemone. The female is not nearly aggressive now but does not let him to move in. But then I thought - wait a second, this big LTA ( it's around 13" big when spread) can eat poor tiny in a bite! So maybe the little one (or the Nature) is smarter than I thought and he is just introducing himself to the anemone? It looks like it too - he would come close to the edge, touch tenticles and swim away. Even when the female is on a food looking expedition on the other side of the tank and nobody chases him away. What do you think guys?
traveller7 January 10, 2007 January 10, 2007 I would suspect "he" is cautious on entering an anemone species it may not have encountered and an anemone known to be home to a big meanie Keep the updates coming and it is a good sign that "he" keeps trying to join the dominant specimen. I would start to worry if they take up residence on the other side of the tank and begin to ignore each other completely. It appears the juvenile to Male progression requires some input from a dominant Female. Enjoy the bonding process
dandy7200 January 10, 2007 January 10, 2007 This is the way it works with my bicinctus. The male is under no circumstances allowed in either the e. quad nor the elegance. He is allowed in the toadstool and this is actually the only spot in the tank where they will rest together. At night she sleeps in the bta and him in the toadstool. In the morning he is always the first to become active and will curiously go to both the bta and the elegance just to check things out but, never will he do this when she is up, for fear of death I think if your new fish is showing submissive behaivior and is not dead yet this will be a good pair. I love clowns.
davelin315 January 11, 2007 January 11, 2007 I just had an established pair in which the female killed off the male. They were donated to the school as a pair at the beginning of summer and they had been paired for over a year. We have had them paired in a tank by themselves, albeit a bit small, a 15 gallon, and they always swam together and hung out together. Last week, however, the female beat the daylights out of the male. I removed him when I found him hiding under a rock with little chunks missing all over his body and hospitalized him. He lasted for about 4 days and then simply bit it, probably got some sort of infection or something. Any idea what caused this sudden change in temperament? There have been no changes in the environment with the exception of the addition of a small frag of green star polyps into the tank. Could they have fought over hosting in the polyps and could the female have killed the male over this? I was very skeptical when the teacher told me the little guy had gotten beat up but when I saw it I had to agree. Oh, and we're on the lookout for a new cinammon clown, male or juvenile!
trble81 January 11, 2007 January 11, 2007 OK so this doesn't have to do with this particular pair but, can you have a clown pair even if you don't have an anenome? As in, have a pair in a FOWLR tank. It seems so neat the way they pair up, I would love to be able to do that in my new tank (35g hex).
Sugar Magnolia January 11, 2007 January 11, 2007 Yep, you can. :D Clowns will use just about anything as a host. I had one in my old 7 gallon bowfront that loved it's powerhead. Slept on top of it every night.
Steve G January 11, 2007 January 11, 2007 OK so this doesn't have to do with this particular pair but, can you have a clown pair even if you don't have an anenome? As in, have a pair in a FOWLR tank. It seems so neat the way they pair up, I would love to be able to do that in my new tank (35g hex). My ocellaris uses a euphyllia divisa (torch) as a host. I have had them hosting in other corals and tank equipment. Maybe htis is especially true for tank-raised fish like mine, but anemones are not at all necessary for clownfish survival in the marine aquarium. By the way, I'm in a similar position as Inna. Had a clownfish pair and the smaller one had a fatal run-in with a powerhead that I had temporarily installed (without adequate protection). The remaining clown has gotten large. Now I am thinking of getting her a boyfriend, but I'm not sure how small I should go. Is there a danger of running afoul of clownfish society by trying to pair an immature male with a mature female? Will the larger fish pick on the smaller one?
dzekunoi January 11, 2007 Author January 11, 2007 My ocellaris uses a euphyllia divisa (torch) as a host. I have had them hosting in other corals and tank equipment. Maybe htis is especially true for tank-raised fish like mine, but anemones are not at all necessary for clownfish survival in the marine aquarium. By the way, I'm in a similar position as Inna. Had a clownfish pair and the smaller one had a fatal run-in with a powerhead that I had temporarily installed (without adequate protection). The remaining clown has gotten large. Now I am thinking of getting her a boyfriend, but I'm not sure how small I should go. Is there a danger of running afoul of clownfish society by trying to pair an immature male with a mature female? Will the larger fish pick on the smaller one? I'm sure the bigger one will pick on the smaller one. I just got a very small juvenile to be sure it will be submissive enogh to calm the female down.
traveller7 January 11, 2007 January 11, 2007 By the way, I'm in a similar position as Inna. Had a clownfish pair and the smaller one had a fatal run-in with a powerhead that I had temporarily installed (without adequate protection). The remaining clown has gotten large. Now I am thinking of getting her a boyfriend, but I'm not sure how small I should go. Is there a danger of running afoul of clownfish society by trying to pair an immature male with a mature female? Will the larger fish pick on the smaller one? The odds of finding a "mature Male" to pair are far too small and very high risk of getting one moving toward female already. Best bet is typically to let the surviving specimen grow out to full female form and then add a juvenile which will move into Male status over time. My preference is to get down near the 1" size, separate them upon introduction(old fashioned guppy trap or egg crate), and introduce them to each other after a few days or a week. Be ready to separate the juvie if the damage is severe, i.e. body damage not just fins. It would be helpful to read through at least the first post in the RC clown pairing thread linked earlier. btw: Dave, it is not unusual for changes in the tank structure to trigger aggression in a pair that is not strongly bonded, but more tolerating each other. By nature a Mature Female clown is designed to eat first to saturation and let the rest of the group feed. If she is not getting all she needs, the rest of the tanks in habitants need to be on guard at all times, even her "mate". Good luck.
davelin315 January 12, 2007 January 12, 2007 Dave, it is not unusual for changes in the tank structure to trigger aggression in a pair that is not strongly bonded, but more tolerating each other. By nature a Mature Female clown is designed to eat first to saturation and let the rest of the group feed. If she is not getting all she needs, the rest of the tanks in habitants need to be on guard at all times, even her "mate". Good luck. Thanks, it's interesting to see that the introduction of a frag of GSP attached to a rock the size of my thumb could change things that much! I had thought that they were very well bonded as they don't do the same sort of "chasing around" that the female cinammon and male Australian clown do in my hex tank. They are friendly but she does an awful lot of chasing away.
dzekunoi February 9, 2007 Author February 9, 2007 Now the little one is confident enough to enter the LTA. Female chases him away but somewhat lazily. Sometimes she let's him stay for some time. However the little one ( have no idea if it's a male yet, or just a juvenile) sleeps in different anem. I checked with a flashlight Can I call this progress successful so far?
traveller7 February 10, 2007 February 10, 2007 (edited) Can I call this progress successful so far? Operative words, "so far," yes You'll know you are at the next stage when one doubles in size and the other gets to work biting the rocks instead of running away when "he" is chased That may take 6-9 months in the Clarkii complex. Cheers. Edited February 10, 2007 by traveller7
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