mogurnda December 5, 2006 Share December 5, 2006 I have been posting photos on various forums for the past few years, and haven't worried too much about people using them without permission. Heck, I'm not Chris Thomas, so it's not like I would expect anyone to actually want to use them. Nonetheless, tonight I was looking for macroalgae online, and found someone has been using a cropped version of one of my photos on their retail site. There are too many distinguishing features for it not to be my photo, and I can show I have the original, plus a version I posted on Reef Central about 3 years ago. Anyway, I was just wondering what legal standing I have. It's not copyrighted; it's not even that good. Can I shake them down for merchandise? Can they just tell me to bug off because I posted it online and that it's therefore public domain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squiddly December 5, 2006 Share December 5, 2006 I have been posting photos on various forums for the past few years, and haven't worried too much about people using them without permission. Heck, I'm not Chris Thomas, so it's not like I would expect anyone to actually want to use them. Nonetheless, tonight I was looking for macroalgae online, and found someone has been using a cropped version of one of my photos on their retail site. There are too many distinguishing features for it not to be my photo, and I can show I have the original, plus a version I posted on Reef Central about 3 years ago. Anyway, I was just wondering what legal standing I have. It's not copyrighted; it's not even that good. Can I shake them down for merchandise? Can they just tell me to bug off because I posted it online and that it's therefore public domain? No. An image is copyrighted once it is created. Its appearance on the Internet does not mean it is public domain. You can shake them down at will. Squiddly the IP lawyer... but no, this was not legal advice... insert standard disclaimer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhoch December 5, 2006 Share December 5, 2006 Dave, What squiddley said is my understanding as well. First thing to do is ask them to either: 1) remove your pic 2) compensate you for it's use Or both. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbashaw December 5, 2006 Share December 5, 2006 I would be clear with the person using your image that it is illegal to use other people's photos without permission and it is in violation of copywright laws. Let them know from the start that it is your right to take legal action against them if you choose to. Personally if someone contacted me and asked to use my photo I would be very happy to let them and probably would allow them to use it at no cost or a discount on a purchase from them but when they are making a profit on an item and they're using your picture without your permission to sell it... I would shake them down for free stuff using the fact that you could sue them as leverage. I know it sounds unethical but that's what they're doing with your picture. It probably wouldn't be worth the time and trouble to go after them legally but letting them know that you could if you wanted to will give them a good scare. I would guess that once you contact them lots of pictures on the website will be taken down or changed very quickly because yours is probably not the only one they stole. http://www.copyright.gov/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YBeNormal December 5, 2006 Share December 5, 2006 I agree that you should contact them with a stern and concise email or letter explaining that the photos belong to you and are being used without your permission. Demand that they remove the photos or contact you to arrange for compensation within 72 hours. Threaten legal action if they do not respond. We found many examples of web sites using photos from other forums that I participate in. In every case, contact was made with the offender and the situation was quickly remedied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocko918 December 5, 2006 Share December 5, 2006 First i would ask them about it, where did they get it, don't accuse them of anything. It will just make matter worse. Say you have a picture you took that looks just like it. Find out if it is the same and go from there. Go in with an open mind, don't be defensive yet. If it is yours then take the next step. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mogurnda December 5, 2006 Author Share December 5, 2006 First i would ask them about it, where did they get it, don't accuse them of anything. It will just make matter worse. Say you have a picture you took that looks just like it. Find out if it is the same and go from there. Go in with an open mind, don't be defensive yet. If it is yours then take the next step. I'll let you be the judge: My photo Theirs: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigJPDC December 5, 2006 Share December 5, 2006 I'd say that is a perfect match, by using the background but seriously, how much did this save them? Couldn't they just take a picture of their own stock if they were a retailer? jp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocko918 December 5, 2006 Share December 5, 2006 Certianly looks like yours. I am just saying don't go in there guns blazing. Just ask them to take it down if they say no then go from there. I am sure if you talk to them you can come to some agreement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gadgets December 5, 2006 Share December 5, 2006 I agree with Rocko. Go in with an open mind and maybe they will compensate you with a store credit or something. But at the very least, make sure they stop using your image. BTW I am flattered that you think my pics are that good. :wink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mogurnda December 5, 2006 Author Share December 5, 2006 Couldn't they just take a picture of their own stock if they were a retailer? I totally agree. Seems like laziness. It comes up on the first page of Google Images if you type in Botryocladia. They cropped it, and didn't even bother resizing. No guns blazing. I just let them know I was not happy with not having been asked and not being given any credit for the photo. My shakedown consists of asking for credit toward some Sargassum. FIne with me if they keep using it. The whole thing's a bit surreal. When I write online articles, I either use my own photos, or ask permission from the originator and give them credit. Even then, I make no profit and hardly anyone reads the things anyway. I would think a retailer would a) be careful about using other people's work for their monetary gain; b) have a camera and be able to take the time to get a better photo of their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jager December 5, 2006 Share December 5, 2006 but your forgettting the old adage that unfortunatly highlights a whole lot of issues with copyrights on all kinds of levels. that is that people dont necessarily see anything as wrong, unless they are caught red handed. that being said if the site owner paid to have the site made, he might not have know the photos were "borrowed" without permission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigJPDC December 5, 2006 Share December 5, 2006 All of the mentions of taking the store for some type of compensation are really interesting to me. What kind of store credit are you thinking that picture is worth, and will you obtain a legal sales document for the transfer of rights and report it on your taxes as income? Will the retailer then be able to sell that picture, or is it a one time useage fee? Do you know what WAMAS paid for all the pictures in the banner or did an in house photog take and assemble them? jp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocko918 December 5, 2006 Share December 5, 2006 Do you know what WAMAS paid for all the pictures in the banner or did an in house photog take and assemble them? jp All the pictures in the banner are members pictures that I got premission to use. Dave- i did a google search on Botryocladia and saw the image in question, but it is drawing that image from your post on another web forum. http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37617 am i missing something? are you saying they googled it, saw your image took it and then put it on their page? That's pretty bad! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mogurnda December 5, 2006 Author Share December 5, 2006 All of the mentions of taking the store for some type of compensation are really interesting to me. What kind of store credit are you thinking that picture is worth, and will you obtain a legal sales document for the transfer of rights and report it on your taxes as income? Will the retailer then be able to sell that picture, or is it a one time useage fee? Interesting take. I am asking a small amount of compensation, to be negotiated, as a courtesy for using material I generated. I have no interest in turning this into a formal fight. Given what I pay in taxes, it wouldn't even be a blip on the radar screen. Do you know what WAMAS paid for all the pictures in the banner or did an in house photog take and assemble them? They were generated by WAMAS members. To my knowledge, they were used with permission, but that's an interesting question. Why all the negative reaction? Do you think I should just ignore that someone used my image without my permission? are you saying they googled it, saw your image took it and then put it on their page? That was my assumption. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigJPDC December 5, 2006 Share December 5, 2006 Why all the negative reaction? Do you think I should just ignore that someone used my image without my permission? Not negative at all or my intent, maybe my wording seemed unintentionally confrontational - just wondering what your answers would be, especially the one about the taxes and how much you thought a picture was worth. I really don't know if it's worth a $25 frag or $1,000. It's an interesting debate since it is your picture and you want to negotiate compensation, but your intent was not for commercial use and you do not intend on reporting the generated income from it. I absolutely think they should compensate you or at least give you artistic credit for the picture but all my hypothetical follow-up questions are valid in terms of a message board discussion. jp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mogurnda December 5, 2006 Author Share December 5, 2006 Not negative at all or my intent, maybe my wording seemed unintentionally confrontational - just wondering what your answers would be, especially the one about the taxes and how much you thought a picture was worth. I really don't know if it's worth a $25 frag or $1,000. Sorry about misinterpreting. My feeling is that $25 would be optimistic. Despite being married to a lawyer, I am not particularly inclined toward litigation, so I have trouble converting the horrible trauma of having my life's work stolen into a dollar amount. Even if I were, a small online seller of macroalgae is not likely to have deep pockets. It's an interesting debate since it is your picture and you want to negotiate compensation, but your intent was not for commercial use and you do not intend on reporting the generated income from it. I absolutely think they should compensate you or at least give you artistic credit for the picture but all my hypothetical follow-up questions are valid in terms of a message board discussion. Yup, I suppose the questions are valid. It seems to me, though, that the issue is not my intention in posting the images, but the fact that someone is using my work for their profit (small as it may be). Had they asked permission in the first place, the whole issue would probably be moot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigJPDC December 5, 2006 Share December 5, 2006 back at ya, hope to do it in person someday! It's too bad you can't make the site as 'lame' somehow for lifting your picture, or post in their customer comments or somthing. That action is so weak it speaks to them not having the business sense to know better. jp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phisigs79 December 5, 2006 Share December 5, 2006 WHATS THE SITE? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copps December 5, 2006 Share December 5, 2006 Yup, I suppose the questions are valid. It seems to me, though, that the issue is not my intention in posting the images, but the fact that someone is using my work for their profit (small as it may be). Had they asked permission in the first place, the whole issue would probably be moot. I felt the same way when a retailer in Germany was using an image of one of my regal angels on the homepage of their site. Someone contacted me about it, as I'd never have found it. The owner felt bad and sent me a small protein skimmer and some biological product he was pushing. I let them use it and said all they needed to do was contact me and ask... A website in the US contacted me ahead of time and said they'd shoot me some livestock when they got settled... I don't even remember the name of them... It's the same image being used on our WAMAS banner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbashaw December 5, 2006 Share December 5, 2006 WHATS THE SITE? If you right click on the stolen picture and go to the properties you will see the name of the site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigJPDC December 5, 2006 Share December 5, 2006 I love that CBB avatar!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocko918 December 5, 2006 Share December 5, 2006 If you right click on the stolen picture and go to the properties you will see the name of the site. I don't think that is the site dave is talking about. There is another site using it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phisigs79 December 5, 2006 Share December 5, 2006 WELL THEN THAT MAKES TWO SITES BECAUSE THEY ARE USING IT TOO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mogurnda December 5, 2006 Author Share December 5, 2006 Big oops. I was trying to keep the site unnamed. My assumption is that they were being sloppy, not dishonest, and all I wanted was a little recognition from them. I did not intend to "out" them. Dang that left click. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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