Rocks leaching phosphates

[xabo]

I believe my rocks are leaching phosphates. Tested last week while running Rowaphos and phosphates were 0.07. Tested yesterday after taking reactor off-line and phosphates were 0.67. Should I just replace the rock or continue with phosphate remover?

[DaJMasta]

I don't think so, from what I understand, phosphates will leech out of rocks for a time, but most that they absorb is bound up in a way where it doesn't come out in the water again - there was a study done recently iirc but I haven't been able to find it.

 

The short of it was that in the short term (a matter of days) it could let a bunch back out into the system, but it basically tapered off asymptotically, so there was effectively negligible release after a week to a couple of weeks.  I think both calcium carbonate based rock and sand was tested and the results were the same.

 

So, personally, I'd continue some kind of phosphate management, and if rowaphos has been doing the job and you've got the hardware for it, it sounds like a good choice.

[xabo]

Been having the leaching problem for last 6 months to a year.

[xabo]

I keep pulling algae and it keeps coming back

[Gatortailale]

What type of foods are you using?

[xabo]

Was feeding Mysis shrimp. Have stopped and switched over to Nori sheets.

[cpeguero]

Could you provide some more specifics of your tank? Size, livestock, other water parameters?

 

Switching from strictly a protein based diet of shrimp to strictly algae might be a concern for your fish, depending on their needs. 

[xabo]

225 gal.

3 Tangs

1 CBB

N03- 5-10

P04 - 0.67(Last checked)

*ALK- 11.2

*CAL- 563

*MAG- 1415

 

*Per APEX

 

[DaJMasta]

Are you sure it's hair algae?  If you've got 3 tangs and the algae keeps coming back, I'd suspect bryopsis.  Sometimes the branching structure doesn't look as fern like as some pictures, too, but often there are tiny blue flecks on some of the hairs in normal reef lighting.

Between the nori and the frozen, I could understand some phosphate buildup, especially without a bunch of corals and things to absorb them, so having some kind of phosphate management system (GFO, lanthanum chloride, etc.) is what I've come to expect.  On my smaller tank, my phosphates tend to be high, but I'm managing them with regular (every week or so) PhosBan-L dosing, though it seems larger systems tend to prefer GFO in a reactor as you're doing.

For the hair algae (or bryopsis) you could try a treatment like flucanozole to get rid of it, then keep up the phosphate management and see if just getting it out initially can keep it away.

[xabo]

2 hours ago, DaJMasta said:

Are you sure it's hair algae?  If you've got 3 tangs and the algae keeps coming back, I'd suspect bryopsis.  Sometimes the branching structure doesn't look as fern like as some pictures, too, but often there are tiny blue flecks on some of the hairs in normal reef lighting.

Between the nori and the frozen, I could understand some phosphate buildup, especially without a bunch of corals and things to absorb them, so having some kind of phosphate management system (GFO, lanthanum chloride, etc.) is what I've come to expect.  On my smaller tank, my phosphates tend to be high, but I'm managing them with regular (every week or so) PhosBan-L dosing, though it seems larger systems tend to prefer GFO in a reactor as you're doing.

For the hair algae (or bryopsis) you could try a treatment like flucanozole to get rid of it, then keep up the phosphate management and see if just getting it out initially can keep it away.

 

You may be on to something:

 

[Gatortailale]

Is your rock marco or other natural rock; or is it a man-made type?  

 

When you say you took rowa reactor off line - did you pull all the old media out of water? or is it still in the tank water?

 

Have you tested your top-off water to see what phosphate levels show?  Assuming you are using RO/DI unit to make water.  How old are the filters?  

 

If your system permits, could try to get a good refugium light and try growing macro algae in refugium on alternate light cycle.  

 

I would do periodic tests with a Salifert or other brand to verify that your apex trident numbers are accurate.  It's also curious that if you actually have that high of alk (11.2) that nuisance algae is growing.  Generally, I thought nuisance algae doesn't do well when alk over like 9.

 

What supplements are you using to keep alk at 11 & calcium at around 560 - per apex?  How long have you used that brand of trace elements and/or Kalk powder?  Does it correspond to when started having algae problem?

 

What type of powerheads are you running to create flow to sweep away detritus and waste to minimize dead zones where algae may grow?

 

CBB's have small stomachs so I would caution limiting them to grazing on nori.  Generally don't find mysis as the source of a phosphate problem - do you rinse it with RO/DI water before feeding to eliminate some excess stuff in packaging? 

 

Marc Lev. who the club had to speak last summer has suggested in videos he has posted that 1) you need to pick out as much algae by hand; 2) do water change; 3) add significant cleanup crew with lots and lots of mouths of various types to attack and eat the algae.  What do you have for cleanup crew?  

 

One my tanks I had algae issue when I fed it neptune pellets and was able to reduce the algae growth by switching to frozen mysis foods & adding a lot of cleanup crew mouths.

 

Finally, how long during the day are you running lighting schedule?  

[xabo]

First I'd like to thank all of you for the replies.

Salifert readings:

Alk- 10.9

Cal- 520

Mag- 1440

 

Rock is live rock that dried out while waiting for replacement tank, twice. Rock was given an acid bath so basically dead when tank was setup. RODI water for top off/water changes, no phosphates detected. Filters were changed a month ago. Using a calcium reactor with reborn media. Flow- 4 MP60's, Red Dragon 150W for return pump.

 

Lighting- 6 XR30 G4's ran 8 hrs. a day at 70%. Tank has been running Two Years this month. First Year and a half rock was covered with coraline algae. Now rock is all white.

 

Have use Sea Clear, GFO and Rowaphos to control phosphates. Have to dose No3 to keep numbers up. Frozen Mysis is rinsed with RODI water before feeding.

[xabo]

CUC- Mexican Turbos, Top Crown and Astrea snails.

[DaJMasta]

Between the slight blueness of some of it and the branching (not a lot, but not just individual strands), I'm pretty convinced that's bryopsis.  That also means it will likely persist regardless of phosphate level.  I've heard basting the area so detritus doesn't accumulate it can help, but you'll probably need a dedicated bryopsis eater or a chemical treatment to actually get rid of it.

 

I've had luck with fluconazole (Flux Rx in my case), but there should be other options that are available (and maybe lettuce slugs/sea hares could be one of them?)

[xabo]

I have some Fluconazole from a few years ago, will give it a try. The Wife says to tear it down and start over.........says she'll buy the rock. 

[epleeds]

41 minutes ago, xabo said:

I have some Fluconazole from a few years ago, will give it a try. The Wife says to tear it down and start over.........says she'll buy the rock. 

Fluconazole is great for bryopsis 

[gws3]

DaJMasta is giving you good advice. It definitely looks like Bryopsis to me as well. Keep your magnesium elevated where you have it currently (1400-1500) and dose Fluco. 20mg per gallon. For the first three days let your skimmer cup drain back to tank. If you do water changes within the first few weeks dose the new water with Fluco at 20mg per gallon. This problem will most likely clear up within a few weeks doing so and you'll be really happy you didn't do something more drastic.

 

This is where a lot of folks bought fluco before it was being branded for reef tank use, FWIW:

 

https://payless-petproducts.com/fish-fluco-forte

Edited February 19, 2024 by gws3

[xabo]

20mg per gallon or 20mg per 10 gallons?

[Gatortailale]

Not sure if excess co2 from calcium reactor will fuel bryopsis, but maybe either add extra chamber to reactor to scrub co2, or use less from reactor and drip more kalk to make up difference.

 

marc Lev & rich Ross in Marc’s live video last Saturday at one point they talked batting nuisance algae, suggested pick out as much by hand, and have many many cleanup crew mouths.

 

good luck hope something works for you 

[gws3]

13 hours ago, xabo said:

20mg per gallon or 20mg per 10 gallons?

 

20mg per gallon.

 

The capsules are 200mg, so 1 capsule per 10 gallons.

[xabo]

Thanks