smokythemattman@gmail.com

Its just amazingly confusing to me. But I still wanted it to hopefully be a heads up to someone else. Either it snuck by me (most likely) or I trusted someone elses clean system (i really dont think its this). But now I am just going to treat all fish with ttm and copper. I am a firm believer in the folks that say that is the way to go if your qting. That observation alone isnt enough.

Yeah I am struggling with it in my mind. Like the hippo tang obviously has it. And theres some stray spots on like 3 of the other 14. But none are really bothered by it. My fear of ich management is adding new fish and them dying even if they seem healthy in qt. But I am going to try my luck with a fish trap. And run em through ttm as I already treated them once with copper and don't want to put them through that again. I still have a 40b and lots of extra equipment. So I dont really have a good excuse for leaving them in there to fight it off.

Yeah I was either to trusting or it snuck in. Shame I will never really know.

Mods please move this to general.

So I am at a total loss. And am totally infuriated. I hope this serves as a psa. I had ich in my tank many months ago. Back in June/July. Came in from a snail or water from LA. No problem. Broke down tank. Treated everything with copper for 30 days. Observed for another 30. No signs of anything. Put the fish in early Sept. Everything wet gets QT by me if its a fish. If its a coral and from a trusted seller who qts I dip it and place it in the tank. I have an invert/coral qt for others from systems I don't know about. Early September. 2 fish from LA. Go into QT tank. Got a potters angel from ReefEscape. They had it out of QT for months. Healthy and happy. They showed no signs of anything. H-E-double hockey sticks I even prophylactically treated the LA ones in copper for 2 weeks. After 5 weeks of nothing wrong I added them to my display. No issues for the past month with them. October 26th. I got some corals at the meeting. The ones from trusted sellers who qt were dipped and placed into my display. The others to my qt. I do trust these sellers as I have bought from them in the past with no issues. Today november 18th. Hippo tang is covered in ich. Nothing has been added to that tank since then. It perfectly lines up with the timeline for ich to hatch and reinfect from the additions on October 26th. But I highly doubt that. The only source of cross contamination. I use a net and algae scraper to clean the glass on both tanks. However, i always went display tank first followed by qt. I rinsed them thoroughly before and after each use and there wouldve been a week of air exposure between uses. Unlikely cause. I highly doubt ich wouldn't have hatched for 4 months. If you have made it this far. Truly double and triple think everything that goes into your tank. I spent way to much time being cautious and still got burned somehow. I made that mistake and now my tank will pay the price. And now I have to debate going ich management or tearing apart my tank and treating fish all over again.

Added some more corals. Got my qt/frag tank setup. Before I just had a 10g and 40g sitting around. I got some more corals from the 10/26 meeting. Got some awesome pieces from some great fellow reefers. SPS and zoas have been doing the best in my tank. LPS lives and is happy but I dont have to many that are growing fast. Anyways since Ive had success so far with SPS I added some more. Waiting on them all to color back up after the move.

Thats awesome! ^ I had a blasto that was just skeleton(got squashed.... rip). No tissue or nothing for a few months but I left it there because a feather duster was on it. And now 3 months later its started to grow tissue back rather quickly. I knew it was possible but never thought it would happen.

Thanks @DAP its getting there! I am redoing one side a little bit with some more SPS from the meeting then Ill do another FTS.

Been trying out baking soda and kalk in my ato to see whats best for maintaining alk and ca. My alk was dropping a little faster than ca. So I was using baking soda. Current params are.. Salinity 1.025 Temp 80 Ca 410 Mg 1270 Nitrates 2ppm Phosphates .01 Alk 7.5 gona creep up to like 8.2 8.3 ish and keep it there. Current Livestock Quoyi Parrotfish Hippo Tang Vampire Tang Potters angelfish Flame hawkfish Clownfish pair Banggai cardinal Sapphire damsel Royal Gramma Splendid dottyback Starry blenny Candy hogfish Yellow coris wrasse Strawberry crab Nem crab Lots of hermits all different kinds Some snails 2 urchins Parrotfish likes to eat the algae off of the soft corals. Except he is a dope and indirectly nips the corals. I may have to move some into the frag tank. Funny enough he is an effective kenya tree remover which doesn't phase me. But he picks at a big sinularia that i like so i may move that out. Doesnt even look at sps,lps or zoas. The potters has 1 eye and is more content to zoom around between caves than graze or eat corals. Everything else is fat and healthy. I added 5 of them after 6 weeks of observation in a qt. Didn't see anything weird so they went in. Corals Lots of jedi montis spreading like the plague Red robin loves my tank Slimer is doing slimer things Birdsnest did not so good. But i attribute that to them being notriously weird for led light acclimation. Utter chaos and blue rhino zoas have gone from like 30 each to 60+ each in 5 months. Everything else is good. Have some slightly agitated lps that isnt fully extended. I am blaming the alk being at like 7.5 it all seemed happier in the 8s. I am making my qt a qt/frag tank. Its a 40b and if I have to medicate the fish instead of observe I have a 10g i will use. Ill post some pics of how I am setting it up this week.

Total shot in the dark. Mine did this once. Then after they laid eggs in the area they were doing it. I thought it was a test to see if the eggs would blow away in the flow. But I found nothing either

Everything goes/grows well in my tank. Coris Wrasse and 2 banggais were added. Banggai male should be hiding his eggs from me any day now. Gona try to raise them in a separate tank if I can find the hiding spot. Got a few more fish in QT. My powder blue died. Found it about a week after adding it back to the display. I am guessing maybe lingering effects from the copper. Had no signs of anything, even cut it open to see if anything inside. (Shouldve taken pics I am a terrible coroner). Real strange. Nothing else seems/seemed phased. RIP. First fish to die on me not from carpet surfing in 2 years. Anyways. I only have 11 fish in the display. And all but one are less than 3 inches. So I got some more. Got a potters angel. He got one good eye and I have tempted him with anything from Utter chaos zoas to birdsnest. Doesn't seem to care about anything except whats in the water column. (Knowing my luck Ill add him to the tank and itll slay a zoa colony). Theres a candy hogfish, royal gramma, splendid dottyback and a juvie Lieutenant Tang. Thatll put me at like 16 with 14 being small. Then Ill be done. On the coral front I wanted to do some different things with this tank. Nothing crazy just different. I always found keeping tanks at 78 degrees as a standard to be weird. Sure things come from all over the world but the temps change. So I am trying to change my temperature with the seasons. It started at 80 and brought it up to 82-83. Now I begin the slow decent to 76-77 over a month or two and then back up in the spring. I couldn't find much about people doing this. Its gradual so I doubt I will kill anything but I am curious what it does for growth. Secondly, for the real adventure. I long had success around the 7-7.5 range of alk in mixed reefs. Softies can grow in anything they may have liked higher alk but didnt seem to care with it at 7-7.5. The SPS and certainly the LPS loved it as other aquarists have found. So I thought lets push my luck. So I dropped it over a few weeks to 5.7-5.9 ish for a month and kept it there. (Stupid I know right). My SPS were going nuts. Couldnt care less. LPS started to tolerate it but wouldn't say they were super happy. And the softies began to hate it. I am really just curious what the minimum range is in my setup for everything to be happy. I would guesd its minimum 6.5 or so. Will find out on the slow climb back up in alk.

Well after 9 weeks of no fish in the display and 10 weeks since seeing the ich the fish have returned to their better home. Crossing my fingers for success because if the fallow period didnt kill it I see ich management in my future. Now everything thats wet gets to live in a qt for 4-6 weeks before it goes in the dt. If no ich reappears in a week or two I will get the next batch of fish into QT.

Everything goes well. I did a 75% water change in the hospital and qt tanks. I got a Quoys parrotfish yesterday and added him after the water change. So far he is just chilling in a corner. Doesn't seem to be doing badly. Just kind of hiding behind a pvc tube. Breathing is normal and hes alert so I am just going to assume hes getting used to his surroundings. The PBT is an absolute fool and was trying to show a fish 2x its size its the tank boss and the parrotfish was having none of it. Hopefully he makes it through he did well at Reefescape for 3 weeks so I am hoping he is just stressed. The copper in the ht should be like .10 ppm or less by now from the cuprasorb and water changes. The display tank goes well in its fallow stage. Soft corals are growing at plague status even though there are hardly any nutrients. I have a little bit of cyano as a result so I am going to feed more. The lps are happy but only the hammers and blastos are growing. Sps are hit or miss but I chalk that up to them taking longer to adjust on growth. Knock on wood the only coral that didnt do well was half of a monti frag that got bulldozed by an urchin onto a Lobo. The logo won in like 5 hours. Still waiting on someone with a ton of zoas. My berghia culture is going they must have eaten the first wave of aiptasia i put in there. There is no aiptasia left and unless hermit crabs are the secret weapon Id say so far so good. Gona add like 15-20 more aips. Only seen 2 of the 14 berghia but they are nocturnal.

Well no socks, no fish and still feeding the fallow tank twice a day has my nitrates at 2ppm and phosphates at .02ppm. Have had the fuge light on every other night. Probably going to keep this routine once the fish go in. I am hoping the levels stay there or slightly higher and I can dial in the fuge running time to keep it steady. Need to check my alk again. Only fell from like 8.5 ish to 8.2 over a few week span. I dont really have alot of hard corals in the tank so I am not surprised it hasn't fallen to much. The tank is like a pod a palooza. Its insane. I have had pods in my previous two systems rocks for a while but never really alot. I thought I had diatoms on the glass buts its just pods everywhere.... if the fish returning in a month doesnt dent their population(i don't have any pod eaters but they are piggies so who knows) I may strongly consider a mandarin or leopard wrasse. Its insane in there. Grosses out the girlfriend. The fish are all doing well in the copper. Havent checked the level of copper in a week but it was .5ppm and I havent changed water or anything so I am sure its still at that level. But I will before they enter their last 10 days or so of the treatment. Funny side story. When I broke down the tank real quick to catch everything i put all the rocks in buckets/44g brutes. I have quite a few crabs and didnt really pay attention to where they went as I knew they were holding onto the rocks. I placed all the rocks back in and just did a small water change while I was at it. I had about 5g in one brute and carried it upstairs to dump it. (Theres a drain at the end of our driveway). I dump the brute a few feet from it and start wheeling it back in. I faintly here a "click" "click" "click". Lo and behold the water was kind of murky from the rocks being in there so I couldn't see well and there was my strawberry crab! Just sitting there on my driveway in the summer heat clicking away at me with his claws. Pretty sure I panicked and said oh s*** a crab and my neighbor who was working on his car was real confused. I used a rock from the flowerbed real quick and scooped him up and ran downstairs. Dropped him in the tank. He stared me down the whole time he sank to the bottom. Went under a rock. That was about a month ago. Its mostly nocturnal but will emerge like the starfish for easy food at feedings but I didnt see it since then. And today after feeding it appeared! I felt so bad the bucket it was in I dumped like a good amount of super salty water. (Longer story) and it sat in there while I worked in my cold basement. Who knows what the salinty and temp were. I felt so awful and thought for sure I killed it but marine life has proved to me time and time again its quite resilient especially if you have a healthy specimen to start. Picture is faint but its in there. Side note. Tuxedo urchin found a coral frag that I never knew existed? Maybe was on a rock I picked up from someone. It started off totally white but now it has polyps on it.... completely intend to leave it as its hat.

Yeah the socks have been ditched as of today. Tho I may put them back in in hopes they turn into a nitrate factory. I measured 1ppm nitrate and .01ppm phosphate lol so I need it to get a little dirtier. But yeah any time just let me know I am super flexible with work and not to far from most folks.

Thanks. To be honest I had seen nothing but RSRs and the occasional IM or JBJ but hadn't seen a Waterbox. Epleeds reached out to me and we got to talking. I think they are both very comparable. But imo the fact that the Waterbox comes with Hydras instead of Red seas Leds was a plus. Not because the Red Seas are bad just because they aren't as common. Hydras are everywhere with proven results in a mixed reef. The RSRs and WBs seem extremely similar in quality. The only thing that would differ is maybe slight style preferences. The tank is fantastic. The seams are beautiful, the starfire glass on everything even the ato is a huge plus. Even the overflow is starfire glass which I dont think RSR is but thats not really a big deal. I really cant offer any complaints on the tank. The stand is well put together as well water spilled on it doesnt absorb it just sits until you wipe it off the stand doesn't seem as "heavy" as the RSR stands but I think they are MDF whereas WB is plywood coated in some magic substance. The sump space has alot of room to work in. I am a decent size guy and have no issues. One plus over RSR in the sump is WB not using proprietary filter sock. One negative is if your socks clog the chambers overflow weirdly. Hard to explain in person. But I am about to stop using the socks. I had like 2 nitrates and wana see what effect not having the socks in has. WB customer support is fantastic. I can say so far I am happy with it. If you would like to see it in person that totally works to I think thats easiest as the WB vs RSR debate just comes down to a few things preference wise! I have had a few folks come by already and a few more wanting to see it!

Sorry shouldve been more specific. Meant like these Caracanthus guys on the right side

Curious if anyone has any input on the Coral Crouching gobies lifespans. I have only ever seen them for sale at what seems like their adult size and was wondering if they are like other gobies and are relatively short lived. Couldn't find much online.

I didn't want to stock corals this fast but since I am fallow now seems logical to skip QT and add some corals straight to the DT after a dip. Will pick up the last of the large corals for the tank at fragfest. I really wanted two more easy sps colonies to put in the top middle on the left and right sides. Zoas are growing like weeds now and the SPS still seems happy with white tips. My next objective is cord management. It is uh not pretty back there but should be safe and everything is plugged into a surge protector. As the first side note I intend to build my own controller after I am not fallow anymore and get my cords straightened out. I have what is called a "DJ powerstrip" and I intend to modify it a little and connect it up to a raspberry pi or something else. Will make the app/software myself and see how far I can take it as a Diy project. Second note I have redone my stock list way to much but this is what itll be now. Existing Ocellaris Pair Flame hawk Starry blenny Pbt Hippo tang Royal gramma Sapphire damsel Pair of bangaii cards To add Quoyi parrotfish 2 yellow coris wrasse Trio of leopard wrasse (will get all small females and hope one turns) Pair of coral grouchers (will post some questions in general) Either a male lyretail or male squareback anthia 1 more uncommon wrasse Pair of longnose hawkfish

Sorry to hear about your tank glad you were able to save most of your livestock! Does Cobalt advise placing a mat under their tanks? I only ask because I have read a few times certain Marineland rimless cubes that Marineland recommended not placing a mat underneath. I spent entirely to much time reading about this all a month or so ago with my tank. I recall most rimless tanks dont actually even need support under the front panel because the sides take the beating. I would guess honestly there was some amount of stress put on that panel by a previous owner ,a defect or something hit the glass like a rock falling or something. But the pressure points potentially from the tank not being flush on the stand could cause all sorts of weird things. I would also be curious as to how it was kept by the previous owner. Yours being a crack and not a seam blowout is really weird.

Totally moved the rocks again lol. The sea fan is giant so I put it somewhere where it has a ton of room to itself and probably a little more flow and light. I have been slowly upping ny mp40s. I had them at like half power for a while because I mostly had lps and easy softies. They are probably both 80% and the few easier sps in there seem happy. I haven't really begun to take to many close ups yet but I will shortly. The inmates in the hospital tank are doing quite well. I had the cupramine at around .3ppm they claim .2- .35 works but I began to up it again to .4 ppm. Will probably maintain it around there for 30 days. Then Ill put some cuprasorb and carbon in there and observe them for another 2-3 weeks. So will be about 9 weeks fallow. Once I am done I may try to find a small frag tank to qt inverts and corals. Plus I already have most of the corals growing. Will probably keep the 40b as a backup hospital tank/qt. But I want to buy a large like 150g rubbermade and keep it in a back room. Just in case anything ever goes wrong with my tank I have somewhere than can hold a large volume.

Not sure if you already decided but I have a Waterbox 230 all set up and running. I work from home alot so I can make just about anything work. I live in Potomac Falls VA. About 40-45 minutes from Frederick MD.

Had to finish moving stuff around and getting the tank actually set up. Leaving the rocks as is probably for a while. Had to change like 25% of the water in the hospital tank to keep ammonia down. But everything progressing well. I subbed out one of the eheim heaters for a Finnex with the temperature control. Next up is still to find a skimmer and build my controller. Going to wait a while for corals. Got alot of great pieces to fill the tank in so now I can start to really figure out the chemistry. Only other corals to add will be zoas and mushrooms to take over the rocks and a little bit of sps ideally(i like alot of the encrusting montis) and an easy colony like a birdsnest to get some more height.