plumging and sump/refugium for 250g

[Guest fishwish]

Hi all:

 

I bought a beautiful custom 250g acrylic tank and stand at auction on ebay. I am going to have it delivered shortly and am discussing a custom sump/refugium as well as plumbing with the maker. I got an extremely reasonable price on the tank and stand. It has 2 overflows and 4 other openings for a closed loop.

 

I've been quoted $280 for all the plumbing, including 8 bulkheads, underneath, back and top. It will come assembled; I'll need to glue in 9 indicated places. I really don't want to try to figure out the plumbing, but is this price too much?

 

Also, I am also considering having him make me a refugium/sump as I am not sure the 30g I have now with my 90g is appropriate for the bigger tank. It would be 36" long and made out of 1/2" acrylic (price on acrylic has gone up). I haven't seen a scematic (and will ask for one tomorrow) but it will have 3 chambers with baffles. The quoted price is $430. Is this too much?? I've looked at lifereef's sump/refugium and theirs are over $500.

 

Or should I go with something like this kit on ebay for $145? I like the pre-cut pieces. I'm not much into DIY and sawing, but I can follow instructions and glue!

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...s_promot_widget

 

I'd like the system to be as turnkey as reasonably possible, but this is $700! Approaching what I paid for the tank and stand at auction. I am not planning to set up this tank anytime soon, was going to wait until I grow into it, so to speak. So there's no real rush. Your thoughts/advice please (besides that I'm insane)!!

 

THANKS!!

 

Ellen

[dhoch]

If you are going to grow it and I don't know who you are purchasing from) there is a local guy (Neon I think is his board name, but Howard will know) that does this stuff. I don't know what his price would be but its worth at least contacting him.

 

Dave

[dandy7200]

$280 is $35 per hole and bulkhead, this is a reasonable amount if you do not feel comfortable doing it yourself. I'm a pretty handy guy but to be honest I myself would probably pay this. If when you say it comes with all the plumbing meaning pvc fittings and pipe.....your darn skippy this is a good price. As for the sump, I wouldn't waste the money there, you can wait for a good used tank to come along and put some baffles in yourself (just gluing as you say), then you are sure it will fit your skimmer etc. HTH.

[fab]

Acryllic looks a bit thin for the 18" tank depth. I'd ask what the material is. Polycast? thickness? then I'd post the thickness and get someone knowlegeable to advise if it is thick enough to be used without a top brace. I know the baffles can be regarded as providing some bracing, but I'd get the number and get some advice.

 

good luck,

fab

[seppler]

Yes, I got a kit like this on ebay, too. Not sure if it's the same seller or not, but it looks very similar...and had some initial problems setting it up. Didn't come with enough acrylic glue...or I was too inept...and had to go out and get more. And also the thicker stuff. And mine is a bit thin...and prone to cracking the seams if it's fiddled with too much...In hind sight, I wish I had paid a bit more for a sturdier sump...

[Ne0eN]

If you are going to grow it and I don't know who you are purchasing from) there is a local guy (Neon I think is his board name, but Howard will know) that does this stuff. I don't know what his price would be but its worth at least contacting him.

 

Dave

 

I'm not sure if I'm the guy you're talking about... I've done my share of plumbing work before - but I dont think my reputation has been established yet.

 

Ellen,

 

Back to your original post... the price seems a bit high if it's pure PVC stuff. Bulkheads can be pricey, but the rest you can get at Home Depot at reasonable prices and then have one of us help you put it all together. Let me know your time frame and perhaps I could come out and help.

 

-- Rob

[Guest fishwish]

I'm not sure if I'm the guy you're talking about... I've done my share of plumbing work before - but I dont think my reputation has been established yet.

 

Ellen,

 

Back to your original post... the price seems a bit high if it's pure PVC stuff. Bulkheads can be pricey, but the rest you can get at Home Depot at reasonable prices and then have one of us help you put it all together. Let me know your time frame and perhaps I could come out and help.

 

-- Rob

 

Rob -- I wasn't sure whether Dave was refering to you or not!

 

I am in absolutely no rush with this set-up. I figure it is at least 6 months away given my thinning wallet and learning curve on my 90g. But the maker wants it out of his shop (which is understandable) since I bought it over a month ago.

 

Just checked the price of bulkheads... "inexpensive" 3" ones (he uses 3" ones b/c low clearance and I like that, always after more room) are $22 ea! Yikes! That means after cost of pvc (have no idea of that cost but don't think its very expensive) he's not charging me very much to build it -- $50 - $80?

 

Thanks sooooo much for your offer of help and everyone's advice. Based on your valuable input, and the fact that I'm so worried about flooding, I think I'm going to just bite the bullet and have the pro build it all out. Then it will sit and gather dust for a while. When I buy the pumps, I'll take you up on your offer to help hook them up!!! I'll also need advice/help in running thing into my utility closet/drain. I'm dreaming about this article I read where a guy used a reefmaker (?) pump and did WCs slowly over a day or two just by flipping a switch. Sigh. I can dream... I'm still spewing water everywhere!

 

Just think, if I lose interest in several months, my loss will be the club's gain as I unload!

 

But before then, I'm going to bribe you all with food and beer to entice you to help me carry it in!! :wink:

 

Thanks so much again!

 

Ellen

 

BTW, anyone interested in a very nice armoire FS? Opps! Don't move my post to the refugium!!

[dhoch]

Ellen,

 

How is the 90 BTW?

 

Dave

[Guest fishwish]

Ellen,

 

How is the 90 BTW?

 

Dave

Thanks for asking, Dave! I think things are going really well, considering. The tank has stabilized, testing paramaters v. good, with nitrates at .05 ppm. Got salinity gradually up to 1.025 by adding SW to top off.

 

Had algae growing like wild for a bit (it was really quite pretty waving around) until I (a) pulled it out, (b) got snails, red and blue legged crabs, © got 2 tangs. Presto -- no more algae (well, hardly any)

 

Yes, I got some fish, earlier than I anticipated. LSF advised getting herbivours (sp? why doesn't this site have spell check?? ) and since I knew I ultimately wanted a powder blue tang, he recommended I put all fish in at once.

 

Fish:

ammonia-surviving-indestructible-can't-be-killed blue damsel

powder blue tang - 3"

yellow tang -2"

percula clown - 1 1/2" (only one, didn't realize couldn't add another later :( )

flame angel - 2"

 

All are doing well and seem happy The two tangs are even sort of buddies. No algae left; am feeding nori every other day.

 

Other:

cleaner shrimp -- lysmata amboinensis

fromi milli-something starfish

a small leather coral

mushrooms -- grown back from Death Week

ricordia (??) -- grown back from Death Week

polyps (??) -- grown back from Death Week

feather dusters, tiny, tiny -- grown back from Death Week (will these grow big?)

 

I'm not planning on adding anything else except for a serpent star and a few corals.

 

The fromi star is stunningly beautiful bright red/orange, but when I got it home from LFS it had what looked like a small bite out of its leg. 2 weeks later, its still there with the bite out, but time will tell. The shrimp is a blast -- he loves the fish and waves his white thingies at him trying to hug them (I got him b/c tangs' susceptibility to ich) -- and happily eats Formula 2 when I hold it for him.

 

I still have 4 problems however:

 

1) dreaded red slime bacteria -- not much, I siphon out when I do WCs; am trying to be patient, trying not to add Chemiclean Red Slime Remover which I confess to buying! When I got the tank, phosphates were high, but I used phosban and readings are now 0. With nitrates at <.05, i'm hoping it will disappear soon. I bought 100 snails off of ebay that were supposed to eat it, but they don't seem interested.

 

2) Dust like stuff on LR -- if I use the turkey baster to blow it off, it swirls around and settles back down like a grayish dusting. The water just isn't as clean as I'd like with it to be with stuff floating around. I've been doing WCs about 1- 2 x weeks, with the last one last night at 25% targeting the rocks.... got lots of stuff but still very visible coating. This is my biggest frustration right now.

 

3) 2 aptasia -- am going to Joe's Juice them soon.

 

4) calcuim level -- dosing with B-Ionic last week or so, but level hasn't budged from 240.

 

Other Issues

 

1) still learning!

2) automation -- need to hook up stuff I've bought, like the Tunze Osmolator, and get the RO/DI automated (flooded 3x forgetting to shut it off. Last time, I got smart and moved the can from the bathroom to the garage!

3) getting the right equipment so I don't spew salt water all over the place during WCs and gathering equipment, tools

4) Identifying a weird anenome (?)

5) questions, questions --

A) like feeding... 1) why not feed tangs garlic regularly if "its only a matter of time til ich arrives"?... 2) how frequently to feed?? Some feed 1x day, some 2x day, some every other day... books say 3 -4 x day small amounts!

B) why did the tangs devaour most algae but won't touch one remaining clump?

C) WCs -- how often? Books say 5% every other week, another says -- get this -- 5% once a YEAR!!!! Those silly Europeans!!

6) etc, etc.

 

HA! Are you sorry you asked??!!

 

I'd post some pics, but I'm embarassed about the dust and red slime.

 

Ellen

 

PS. I'll never forget your and NeOen's help during Death Week. Still greatly appreciated!!

[dhoch]

I still have 4 problems however:

 

1) dreaded red slime bacteria -- not much, I siphon out when I do WCs; am trying to be patient, trying not to add Chemiclean Red Slime Remover which I confess to buying! When I got the tank, phosphates were high, but I used phosban and readings are now 0. With nitrates at <.05, i'm hoping it will disappear soon. I bought 100 snails off of ebay that were supposed to eat it, but they don't seem interested.

 

Be patient... its part of the natural new tank cycle... it will go away.

 

2) Dust like stuff on LR -- if I use the turkey baster to blow it off, it swirls around and settles back down like a grayish dusting. The water just isn't as clean as I'd like with it to be with stuff floating around. I've been doing WCs about 1- 2 x weeks, with the last one last night at 25% targeting the rocks.... got lots of stuff but still very visible coating. This is my biggest frustration right now.

 

Every time you baste less is ending up on the rock... so don't be afraid to keep doing this... some of it is also probably decaying material from corals in your tank... be patient some of it may come back.

 

4) calcuim level -- dosing with B-Ionic last week or so, but level hasn't budged from 240.

 

240 seems awfully low... what are you using to test?

 

Other Issues

 

1) still learning!

 

We all are

 

2) automation -- need to hook up stuff I've bought, like the Tunze Osmolator, and get the RO/DI automated (flooded 3x forgetting to shut it off. Last time, I got smart and moved the can from the bathroom to the garage! biggrin.gif

 

3) getting the right equipment so I don't spew salt water all over the place during WCs and gathering equipment, tools

 

This hobby is never ending always changing/tinkering...

 

4) Identifying a weird anenome (?)

 

Best guess without a pic>... Majano or aptasia

 

5) questions, questions --

A) like feeding... 1) why not feed tangs garlic regularly if "its only a matter of time til ich arrives"?...

 

Many do use garlic regularly in there feedings to all fish

 

2) how frequently to feed?? Some feed 1x day, some 2x day, some every other day... books say 3 -4 x day small amounts! why.gif

 

Opinions change I feed probably 5-6 times/week just once a day... Depends on the fish... with yours 1/day but not more... and maybe nori... could even do a mixture of nori one day, frozen prepared next and keep alternating.

 

B) why did the tangs devaour most algae but won't touch one remaining clump?

 

Why are some tangs yellow and others purple... I don't know

 

C) WCs -- how often? Books say 5% every other week, another says -- get this -- 5% once a YEAR!!!! Those silly Europeans!!

 

differing opinions on this one... I do10 gal 2-3 times/week: 10%-15%/week on my system... others never change their water... whatever works I suppose.

 

 

Dave

[davelin315]

I've been quoted $280 for all the plumbing, including 8 bulkheads, underneath, back and top. It will come assembled; I'll need to glue in 9 indicated places. I really don't want to try to figure out the plumbing, but is this price too much?

 

To be honest with you, to me this sounds incredibly expensive. Drilling acrylic for a bulkhead is not a difficult thing. You only need a hole saw. I like to brace the acrylic with a piece of wood if it's thin and flexing, otherwise simply apply slow steady pressure while drilling at a high RPM. Also, you should allow for the bit to cool a bit in between. Bulkheads themselves are relatively inexpensive, generally between $6-$10 for most common sizes. If space is a consideration, BRK has the thinner bulkheads, but you can also cut them if necessary. From looking at the picture on e-bay, it actually looked like the bulkheads were installed backwards on the set-up with the nut on the inside of the tank. This arrangement requires a whole heck of a lot of teflon tape as water will leak through the threads - bulkheads are supposed to be threaded side out with the nut on the outside.

 

As far as the PVC piping itself, that's also relatively inexpensive and you could afford to practice before gluing. The glue itself is easy to work with, it just requires you to kind of glop it on and then I like to twist it a few times once it's seated so that any air bubbles are stretched out.

 

By the way, the acrylic guru is Naga. He's a BB member here I believe and the people who have purchased from him have been very happy (no experience myself).

[Guest fishwish]

To be honest with you, to me this sounds incredibly expensive. Drilling acrylic for a bulkhead is not a difficult thing.

 

Oh dear! Too late; already paid. :(

 

From looking at the picture on e-bay, it actually looked like the bulkheads were installed backwards on the set-up with the nut on the inside of the tank. This arrangement requires a whole heck of a lot of teflon tape as water will leak through the threads - bulkheads are supposed to be threaded side out with the nut on the outside.

 

 

Thanks for the info! Will discuss with maker.

[Guest fishwish]

 

Best guess without a pic>... Majano or aptasia

here is a pic of the unknown anemone, with my flame angel peeking out. Sorry its not the best!

 

Hmmm... can't seem to figure out how to insert photo. I added it as an attachment, but I don't see it. When I click insert image, it asks for a url. How do you insert photos?

[davelin315]

Right click on the image and click properties. Then copy the URL from the properties and paste that in where it asks for the image URL. If it's just an image on its own stand-alone page then simply copy the web address from the browser.

[Guest fishwish]

Right click on the image and click properties. Then copy the URL from the properties and paste that in where it asks for the image URL. If it's just an image on its own stand-alone page then simply copy the web address from the browser.

But its my own photo on my hard drive. I keep trying to add it as an attachment, but that doesn't work. Sorry to be so slow!

[YBeNormal]

You'll need to first upload the picture to a free hosting service such as PhotoBucket, then paste the URL in your post.

[Guest fishwish]

You'll need to first upload the picture to a free hosting service such as PhotoBucket, then paste the URL in your post.

Ah ha!! Thanks!!

 

 

Best guess without a pic>... Majano or aptasia

 

Ok, here's the anemone. Its a bit more pinkish that it seems in the photo. Again, sorry for the poor photo.

[davelin315]

It's a rock anemone. Won't host any clowns that I know of or any damsels, but also is not a "pest" anemone. They also come in some really great colors if you find good ones. I had an intense green and orange one many years ago.

[Guest fishwish]

It's a rock anemone. Won't host any clowns that I know of or any damsels, but also is not a "pest" anemone. They also come in some really great colors if you find good ones. I had an intense green and orange one many years ago.

 

Thanks for the id! Its rather dull, but nice to know its not a bad one. It must be very hardy to have survived Death Week.

[HowardofNOVA]

Ellen,

Sorry you got caught in the "For Sale NOW Bug" on Ebay! :wink:

Alot of work setting up a tank, I was about to go that route and local gent Jeff "NAGA" Haddock built my custom Acrylic Tank. Even a DIY guy like myself, didn't want to gamble with messing with putting one of them together and his work turned out to be excellent!

PM him if it's not to late for your sump, which I would recommend at least a 60-90g size if not more? 1/2" seems very thin for a 240g tank! I have mine made of 1/2"-3/4" and it's a 90g!

Check with Jeff, he is a WAMAS Member and built over 200+ tanks and will be able to advise you as you go forward!!

Howard