Overflow box air pockets

[Still_human]

How do you guys deal with air getting into the siphon tubes bringing water from the inside box of an overflow box, to the external box? Other than using an aqualifter on the ones with just a flat sealed cover, do you just have to periodically remove the tube and start the siphon over? I drilled holes in mine and attached airline that hangs down into the sump, so hopefully any air would get sucked down as soon as little amounts got in the tube, but it doesn’t do that all that well, the airline just makes it easy to restart, by just sucking the other end and putting it back under water in the sump, but they’re getting old and air builds up relatively fast and can stop the siphon within short periods. I was going to get an aqualifter box, but some people were talking about them being bad, partly because even little snails getting in will jam them, and potentially cause overflows(onto the floor). What is everybody’s feelings on those? What do you guys all use? Are you stuck just restarting the siphon regularly?

 

*i know the easy solution is drilling the tank, but that’s not something I really want to do. 

[treesprite]

Scary situation. I don't know if the aqualifter ones are any safer though. I had aqualifter type of overflow boxes before having a drilled tank, and had an aqualifter failure which caused the overflow box to fail. That was when I decided I had to have a drilled tank, but I understand the not wanting to do it.

[davelin315]

Use an aqualifter in conjunction with an airline check valve.  This will suck air from the tube and restart your siphon when it fails but make sure it runs on the same power as your pump so that if the pump goes off due to power the aqualifter also goes off or it will drain your siphon tube and when it restarts you might end up with it taking longer to restart the siphon and overflow your tank.

[Still_human]

On 2/8/2020 at 8:22 PM, treesprite said:

Scary situation. I don't know if the aqualifter ones are any safer though. I had aqualifter type of overflow boxes before having a drilled tank, and had an aqualifter failure which caused the overflow box to fail. That was when I decided I had to have a drilled tank, but I understand the not wanting to do it.

How long did the box fail after the lifter failed? I don’t know if they’re not even meant to run without the lifter, in which case that sucks, but if it CAN, that would seem fine. I always thought the almost COULDNT clog, since it’s not a thin tube at all, it’s a space that runs the entire width of the box, isn’t it? So it has like 5”+ of length to need to get clogged, right?

[Still_human]

On 2/8/2020 at 9:59 PM, davelin315 said:

Use an aqualifter in conjunction with an airline check valve.  This will suck air from the tube and restart your siphon when it fails but make sure it runs on the same power as your pump so that if the pump goes off due to power the aqualifter also goes off or it will drain your siphon tube and when it restarts you might end up with it taking longer to restart the siphon and overflow your tank.

Very good point! Always thought they had a very large amount of intake flow, way more than a tube, but it’s hard to tell from little pictures. Is the flow rate pretty low?

[treesprite]

6 hours ago, Still_human said:

How long did the box fail after the lifter failed? I don’t know if they’re not even meant to run without the lifter, in which case that sucks, but if it CAN, that would seem fine. I always thought the almost COULDNT clog, since it’s not a thin tube at all, it’s a space that runs the entire width of the box, isn’t it? So it has like 5”+ of length to need to get clogged, right?

 

The most common thing I've noticed, is that Aqualifters gradually get clogged inside of the ports where the hoses connect. If not cleaned out once in a while, efficiency slowly gets worse and one day the thing stops. The box can't transfer water from the tank to the external box without a strong enough siphon, so if the siphon gets weak or stops, the box won't work. The return just keeps pumping until the sump is dry, and all the water overflows the edges of the tank. 

 

Another thing that can happen, is that the rubber bladder thing inside the Aqualifter can get a hole in it from use. Those can easily be replaced, but that won't help when the 40 gallons of water have already poured over the tank rim onto the floor while you were at work, and you have to order the part from online and wait several days for shipping while the tank is possibly suffering.

 

Aqualifters don't last with adequate efficiency long enough when used continuously, so I don't trust them well enough to use a continuous siphon overflow box.  I use an Aqualifter for

 my ATO and it has lasted several years, but it only runs intermittently, and it won't cause a flood in the house in that application.

[Still_human]

13 hours ago, treesprite said:

 

The most common thing I've noticed, is that Aqualifters gradually get clogged inside of the ports where the hoses connect. If not cleaned out once in a while, efficiency slowly gets worse and one day the thing stops. The box can't transfer water from the tank to the external box without a strong enough siphon, so if the siphon gets weak or stops, the box won't work. The return just keeps pumping until the sump is dry, and all the water overflows the edges of the tank. 

 

Another thing that can happen, is that the rubber bladder thing inside the Aqualifter can get a hole in it from use. Those can easily be replaced, but that won't help when the 40 gallons of water have already poured over the tank rim onto the floor while you were at work, and you have to order the part from online and wait several days for shipping while the tank is possibly suffering.

 

Aqualifters don't last with adequate efficiency long enough when used continuously, so I don't trust them well enough to use a continuous siphon overflow box.  I use an Aqualifter for

 my ATO and it has lasted several years, but it only runs intermittently, and it won't cause a flood in the house in that application.

Man, that really makes it uncomfortably iffy:/ I guess one could hook just the lifter up to a timer and have it run for 15 minutes every so long, so that might only take care of one of the issues. I(try to)keep my sump with only enough water above the pump, to put the tank to the brim, but that’s only recently. Oh wow, I must have had 2 dozen overflows over the decades, which is why my 2nd story floor now has to be completely torn out and redone lol! Turns out my room got so hot with the halides and other lights cause I didn’t get good AC airflow, because the saltwater that drained down into the vent had totally rusted away the metal piping lol. At least that gives me high hopes for future room cooling!

[treesprite]

Do you mean using on your U tubes overflow? I'm curious how the aqualifter intake hose would work in it. Would you put it inside the tube?

 

 

[Still_human]

38 minutes ago, treesprite said:

Do you mean using on your U tubes overflow? I'm curious how the aqualifter intake hose would work in it. Would you put it inside the tube?

 

 

like this. I made a SLIGHTLY smaller than airline tube hole in the very top of the U tube, and squeezed the end of the tube just inside the hole, without having it stick through the hole more than a few millimeters, so there wouldn’t be any inaccessible space for air to be stuck, and then I globed the heck out of the area with silicone and a ton of super glue. It’s worked for many many years now, but one of the 2 U tubes has begun to leak air, so it doesn’t work, and the other one works pretty well. It can go many weeks without needing to be drained of air, but then other times I have to do it a few times in a day or 2. I could just reseal them, but If there’s a way that works better than that, I’d like to find it. I’m not sure how air ever gets caught in there, cause even through the years of it working well, it would still periodically fill with air every few months or so. There’s water coming down the airline hose nonstop, just like a non-electric aqualifter, so when it stops it must get flooded by a significant amount of air at once, cause any small amounts of air just get sucked down the airline.

 

*the other end of the airline goes way down into the sump water, so no air can get into it that way.

Edited February 13, 2020 by Still_human

[treesprite]

Great drawing.

 

So, is there like a hairline crack in the tube? I used to have a couple in my tank junk that I got from someone years ago and never used. If you want, I can look for them and give them to you (if I find them).  I don't know how far you would have to drive, though... I'm in lower Montgomery County.

[Still_human]

11 hours ago, treesprite said:

Great drawing.

 

So, is there like a hairline crack in the tube? I used to have a couple in my tank junk that I got from someone years ago and never used. If you want, I can look for them and give them to you (if I find them).  I don't know how far you would have to drive, though... I'm in lower Montgomery County.

Lol thanks, people say I should be an artist!

i dunno for sure, but I think the one of them just has the seal I made around the hole break, cause it totally fills with air within like 30seconds or less, but the other one I don’t know, cause it can last for months without stopping from air inside, so if it was a crack(well, in fact, or anything else I can think of) it would consistently fill with air in just a short period of time, instead of lasting for so long:/