Phosphates/Algae and Inverts

[Squishie89]

So I found out the big reason I was having such an algae problem in my temporary tank system (which has been up a couple years now...) and why I couldn't keep any new inverts alive is the phosphates were high. Once I added a filter pad to start absorbing those compounds, algae was slowing down, I even started to see some of the inverts I used to have come back. So I decided to try some new inverts to help with the algae. Well, 3/4 died. I am mostly assuming the phosphate levels are still too high for new inverts, but I had another theory. I know that algae absorbs phosphates. Can the phosphate levels in the algae reach such high numbers that an invert who eats it essentially gets phosphate poisoning?

[GraffitiSpotCorals]

I would guess that algaes use phosphate to make themselves grow and convert it to do so, so if my guess is right there would never be any very high amounts of phosphate in the algae. This is all a guess for me, I am sure someone will chime in.

I would make sure that your salinity levels are stable and correct in range. Also make sure you have no copper or metals in your water along with no odd temperatures or swings.

[mari.harutunian]

Are you using distilled water in your tank? My friend did and nearly all of her inverts died and she got awful algae, I assume, because there were metals or contaminants from the distilling process. Once she switched to RODI her algae cleared and her inverts lived.

 

 

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[madweazl]

Are you using distilled water in your tank? My friend did and nearly all of her inverts died and she got awful algae, I assume, because there were metals or contaminants from the distilling process. Once she switched to RODI her algae cleared and her inverts lived.

 

 

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Distilled water wasn't the issue. Until you get a grasp of what is actually in your water, it will be impossible to know what is causing your issues. The algae do consume phosphates; This article has some good information. 

Edited August 13, 2017 by madweazl

[mogurnda]

So I found out the big reason I was having such an algae problem in my temporary tank system (which has been up a couple years now...) and why I couldn't keep any new inverts alive is the phosphates were high. Once I added a filter pad to start absorbing those compounds, algae was slowing down, I even started to see some of the inverts I used to have come back. So I decided to try some new inverts to help with the algae. Well, 3/4 died. I am mostly assuming the phosphate levels are still too high for new inverts, but I had another theory. I know that algae absorbs phosphates. Can the phosphate levels in the algae reach such high numbers that an invert who eats it essentially gets phosphate poisoning?

Hi Jessica,

 

A couple of notes from an algae farmer.  First, phosphates themselves will not kill an invertebrate that is eating algae.  All plants take up carbon, nitrogen and phosphorous in varying amounts to build their tissues and generate their collection of biochemicals.  A plant in a phosphate rich environment will only take up the phosphate it needs.  Any more than that, it will leave outside.  

 

Each species of aquatic plant thrives in a specific environment.  In my experience, Derbesia (the usual "hair algae") tends to thrive when nitrogen and phosporous are both elevated.  If the balance shifts toward PO4, you see more cyanobacteria, and Bryopsis seems happiest with plenty of N, and low P (but not zero).  Iron and trace elements are additional variables.  

 

If something is killing your grazing invertebrates, I suspect they are either choking on defensive chemicals produced by the hair algae, or they are starving because they will not eat the stuff.  All of the common nuisance algae produce secondary metabolites to discourage grazing, and each grazer picks and chooses depending on its feeding apparatus and metabolism.  

 

Another issue, when things get really bad, is hypoxia in dead spots.  I actually managed to cure a hydroid infestation when hair algae overgrew and suffocated them during a bad swing many years ago.

 

With regard to PO4 killing your invertebrates, it would be helpful to know specifically which invertebrates are dying, and what the actual water conditions are.  In a coral reef tank, 1 ppm PO4 is excessive, but I have snails, crabs, slugs, and shrimp thriving at that level.  I will have to check my notes, but I think the level in the slug system went even higher while I was away this summer, and none of the invertebrates even blinked.

[Squishie89]

I use RODI. Just changed the filters today though because they were overdue.

 

During the height of the algae problem I managed to kill a sea hare, urchin, various species of snails. I killed off my 2 hermits and various snails that came from my last tank. Recently killed 2 turbo snails and a sea hare. Only inverts that have lived through this is 1 nerite and a bunch of nassarius snails, and currently 1 white/black turbo snail (2 weeks so far).

 

I am going to add an external filter I have to help filter the water even more.

[zygote2k]

I have a tank that tested at 3.22 ppm P04 which is off the chart. It's full of corals and inverts. Some corals are growing, but many have stopped. Snails, crabs, shrimps, urchins are still alive and well. I've been slowly reducing the p04 by dosing lanthanum chloride and the levels are becoming manageble.

[WishNewFish]

I never had any issue of any inverts (hermits, snails, shrimps, sea hare, astern stars) die because of hair algae. I had hair algae literally like a forest but it didn't kill any livestock.

 

I accidentally spilled a whole bottle of pellet food into the tank and by the time I remove most I can and siphon/water change a whole lot of pellets soaked themselves into rock caves etc. A month or 2 later I has a nice amazon forest of hair algae.

Im sure I had tons of phosphate and nitrate in the tank but it didn't kill any inverts.

 

Like others mentioned, it has to be something else like Ph, ammonia, copper, iodine or something else.