Guest Kimo February 23, 2006 Share February 23, 2006 Hey everyone. I'm trying to increase flow in my tank while saving a few bucks. I don't have the $$ right now for something like tunze Streams, but I'd like to increase the flow in my 180 pretty considerably. I keep SPS so this is pretty much a requirement. Currently, I have a closed loop with an Ampmaster 3000 going to two 1" sea swirls and 2 1.5" static outlets at the ends of my tank. I also have a mag 18 as a return pump returning via lockline into the tank. I need to clean my AM, that will probably make a big difference. I have quite a few dead spots, especially at the back and ends of the tank. I can actually see the detritus collecting there, and there are some patches of cyano here and there. So that's the problem. Here are some potential solutions: 1.) Eductors. I could use them with the mag 18 on my return lines, but they would work better being driven by a pressure pump. I can probably upgrade my return pump, especially if I find a deal somewhere. 2.) Seio. I have heard lots of things about them, some good, more bad. I have never even seen one, so I can't really make an educated decision. 3.) MJ 1200s. I don't like powerheads very much, but I could go this route if worse comes to worse. Mainly, I would need to find more outlets. I already have a wavemaker strip. Does anyone have any suggestions? A number of you have seen my setup. Like the description, max flow, min $$$. Thanks!! Jamie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikS February 23, 2006 Share February 23, 2006 Like the description, max flow, min $$$. Maxi-jets modded with props, as per the RC thread After that Seios Eductors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kimo February 23, 2006 Share February 23, 2006 Maxi-jets modded with props, as per the RC thread 54075[/snapback] Has anyone local done this? Jamie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowardofNOVA February 23, 2006 Share February 23, 2006 Here's the link Steven sent me a while ago for the MJ upgrade: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthre...25&pagenumber=1 Also, On the Cyanobacteria, Go for a couple of the Blue/Neon Striped Hermits, Excellent for keep it in check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmeyer February 23, 2006 Share February 23, 2006 I've been looking at similar issues and have come back to the Tunze for my design. If you are willing to shut down your closed loop and replace it with two Tunze 6060s the initial cost is more than made up for over time in energy savings. Two 6060s cost about $275 and run at 11 Watts each. Your ampmaster 3000 runs at 150W. Assuming you are planning about 4 MJ 1200s to supplement the ampmaster, you are at 230W. At the .0647/KWH rate I'm paying, the Tunze would cost $117 less/year to run. You break even in about two years and save money from that point onward. Question is, will two 6060s be sufficient? I haven't used the Tunze Streams, so I really don't know. You could ask others here and/or post a message to Tunze USA on the RC forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Siders February 23, 2006 Share February 23, 2006 What exactly do eductors do? and where can you buy them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kimo February 23, 2006 Share February 23, 2006 Question is, will two 6060s be sufficient? 54083[/snapback] Anyone who has used these pumps care to comment on this? What exactly do eductors do? and where can you buy them? They are used for mixing. They use the flow from a pressure rated pump to draw additional water into the nozzle, making a ton of flow. That's a bad description. Here's an example from aquatic eco systems: http://www.aquaticeco.com/index.cfm/fuseac...d/9846/cid/2953 But don't buy them there, they are cheaper elsewhere. Also, penductors are the shorter version, although they are still quite long at almost 4 inches. They require a pressure pump to really work well, and they will restrict the output from the pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikS February 23, 2006 Share February 23, 2006 Can't comment on the 6060 specifically.....but...6000's are in the same flow arena (200gph more). More than likely a 6060 pointed diagonally will blow sand around in the far corner of the tank. By the time the stream reaches 6' the water column will likely span the entire top to bottom of the tank. They are easily capable of blowing fish sideways @ 4'. In a 4' tank with them diagonal no frag is safe on the bottom - they will get blown around (bb tank). Two of them will add 17x turnover to your existing flow....and...that will be a widely dispersed flow. Short version - they move a LOT of water. The non-controlable versions can be turned off about once an hour IIRC so you can get somewhat random flow. I have two 6000's in a 150 gallon tank - they get turned off for feeding & you can REALLY notice the lack of flow in the tank (& that's with the 3000gph closed loop still running). It's not "surface chop" type movment you generally see with powerheads - it's just water moving all over the place. Off = peaceful "lagoon" type tank On = reef style, water flowing all over the place As I say - Tunze's ain't cheap or small but they do work very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dzekunoi February 23, 2006 Share February 23, 2006 Does anybody use SEIOs? I was thinking about using them but now I'm in doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveoutlaw February 23, 2006 Share February 23, 2006 I use SEIOs and I'm very happy with them. There are some issues with them re-starting after a power outage but there are ways around that. Dollar for dollar you can't get more flow. HOWEVER..... They are only good for constant flow whereas the Tunze's are good for wave motion.......but you're gonna pay for it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flowerseller February 23, 2006 Share February 23, 2006 Maxi-jets modded with props, as per the RC thread After that Seios Eductors Have you actually made this as a modification or are you simply going on hearsay? If you have, I'd like to see it in person. I keep reading people say their the hotlick but never meet anyone that has actually done it so it can be shown. My next query would be longevity. I use Tunze streams and they are the bomb! The 6080's and below are not controllable like the 6100's and up are. They are meant to be pluged in and run. I quickly modified the mounting brackets on mine since I'm too cheap to pay for the magmount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikS February 24, 2006 Share February 24, 2006 Have you actually made this as a modification or are you simply going on hearsay? Neither. I haven't done it, but I'm going by pictures, videos, and the fact that the Tunze's are a powerhead with a prop attached. The controlable versions are a more sophisticated DC motor but the 6060 & 6080's are AC powerheads with a prop - abiet a high quality powerhead. My next query would be longevity. IMHO that's the $64,000 question. Tunze is a known quality level & while maxi-jets are durable I just don't put them in the same league. Will the mods last? They should, carbon rods, PVC, and arcylic make for a sturdy unit.....but how will the maxi last with the extra load of the props? Only time will tell....but you can buy a lot of maxi's for the price of a Tunze. My question is can the prop equiped maxi's run on a wave maker? They've solved the direction issue (very clever) but what will this do to the unit in the long run? The 6080's and below are not controllable like the 6100's Actually that would the 6000's and up. The 6000 & 6100 are the same unit with only a transformer differing (a tranformer swap will make a 6000 into a 6100). The 6200 is an entirely different animal - no interchangeable parts. All the 6X00 series are DC powered, which is why they can start & stop. The 6060 & 80 are AC and can only start & stop infrequently (once an hour IIRC). The most polished version of the maxi mod is in this thread, bottom of the 1st page are flow videos: Hitchhikers Guide to the Maxi Jet The question was "inexpensive flow", right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flowerseller February 24, 2006 Share February 24, 2006 I have been very tempted to do this mod project but went ahead and send the $150.00 for the 6080 real deal. I already had a 6100 the day they came out from Tropical Lagoon. One day when I have nothing to do I'll make one of these mods for kicks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kimo February 24, 2006 Share February 24, 2006 I ordered the parts today. I'm going to give it a shot, since it was $30 for enough to make 2. Unfortunately, I don't have the shop to do it properly, so does anyone want to donate a couple hours some weekend to help me out? Otherwise I'll try to do it with what I have. Jamie I have been very tempted to do this mod project but went ahead and send the $150.00 for the 6080 real deal. I already had a 6100 the day they came out from Tropical Lagoon.One day when I have nothing to do I'll make one of these mods for kicks. 54121[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikS February 24, 2006 Share February 24, 2006 I have been very tempted to do this mod project but went ahead and send the $150.00 for the 6080 real deal. Pretty much my exact thought process.....hmmm, should I?....will they last?......how are they on a wavemaker?.........ah heck, just get the Tunze I'd be more than happy to help. A bit of a cruise but I certainly have all the required tools for that job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikS February 24, 2006 Share February 24, 2006 Okay, since I can't resist a challenge I ordered the parts (gotta know, I just gotta know). Plan is to make the version using a maxi-jet 900 swinging a 1.75" prop. Plan to test them on a wave maker - crucial issue, re-starts have to be dead quiet. Currently thinking of using some rubber rod or something to dampen the re-start clatter. If you see my Tunze's in the sales corner you'll know that the maxi-jets work well. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kimo February 24, 2006 Share February 24, 2006 I bought the Nitro props, so we'll be able to compare them. Personally, I think that it would be best to use one of those 2"->1.5" reducers as the shroud, cut a LOT of the area in the back away, where the slots would be, and use the hard plastic screen to keep any critters out. I feel that would be the least restrictive way to do it. I spent the last couple days reading through the thread on RC, hopefully time well spent. It certainly got the gears turning. Jamie Okay, since I can't resist a challenge I ordered the parts (gotta know, I just gotta know). Plan is to make the version using a maxi-jet 900 swinging a 1.75" prop. Plan to test them on a wave maker - crucial issue, re-starts have to be dead quiet. Currently thinking of using some rubber rod or something to dampen the re-start clatter. If you see my Tunze's in the sales corner you'll know that the maxi-jets work well. :D 54181[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikS February 24, 2006 Share February 24, 2006 Yep, read through the entire thread (& boy am I tired ) Interesting comments by jdieck on page 23 - explains why Tunze are shaped they way they are (jdieck know his stuff - a guru of CA reactors & other stuff). Tunze has that big bell & yet the outlet is about 1.5" and the prop is only about 1.25" across (guess, haven't cleaned them in a while). They do however spin at a very high rate (you can hear them wwwwhhhhiiiirrrr when they're new & speeding up). Check the diagram on page 27. It's not an easy thing to mill but you could attach that to the back of a 3" - 1.5" reducer, mount it on a maxi & pretty much have a DIY Tunze. The other tough part would be making the slots/holes in the bell shaped piece (reducer). You'd either have to drill holes or carve by hand with a dremel & the dremel probably wouldn't be so pretty. Water service PVC uses bushing for reduction...but...DWV fittings generally use bell shaped fittings (no edges for clogs) for reductions. I only choose the 1.75" prop because the shaft dia is 3/16" = no drilling out the prop. I have the drill press but still seems like one of the tougher parts. As I said, it's a bit of a hike from Leesburg - but I'd be more than happy to spend some "maxi-mod" time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tang-away February 26, 2006 Share February 26, 2006 I am expecting 2 Seios 2600's for my 125 this tuesday. You are more than welcome to come over to see the setup. I will report back when I set them up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeltwayBandit February 28, 2006 Share February 28, 2006 $6 if you "buy it now" can't get much cheaper than that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikS February 28, 2006 Share February 28, 2006 Or if you want the "high end version" you can go with: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kimo February 28, 2006 Share February 28, 2006 Well, I have the props, glue and carbon rod. I'll pick up the airline and other sundries tonight if I have the time. Anyone know where to find 1.5" PVC test caps? Lowe's didn't have them last time I was there. Jamie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie97L February 28, 2006 Share February 28, 2006 Well, I have the props, glue and carbon rod. I'll pick up the airline and other sundries tonight if I have the time. Anyone know where to find 1.5" PVC test caps? Lowe's didn't have them last time I was there. Jamie 54574[/snapback] I'm going to order the kit from the guy on RC and use a couple of 900s. I'll let you know how it turns out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikS February 28, 2006 Share February 28, 2006 Any Ace HArdware in the area? They (or other smaller hardware stores) tend to have more of this type of thing in stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flowerseller February 28, 2006 Share February 28, 2006 HD sells test caps but the ones I found there were yellow and had a extra plastic piece that would be in the way. I found the white "correct" test cap at Lowes, but that the one in St. Clairesville, Ohio during Thanksgiving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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