emissary February 9, 2006 Share February 9, 2006 So I think I want to buy a new skimmer. The one I have now is a Berlin Turbo XL on my 75 and it works okay. I don't have it installed properly (it's supposed to have a water level at 9", but it's just at 4" or so), but nevertheless I do get some nice dark stuff from time to time. The problem is, given my tank stand setup, there's not much room to get the skimmer in and out. It *can* be done, I've checked, but it's real tight. This makes me think that I'm going to be too lazy to clean my skimmer very often, and of course that's not very good. So I'm thinking about getting another skimmer. Maybe something that could sit out from under the stand just a little bit. I could drill a hole in the acrylic sump anywhere if that's what I need to do... I've only ever had in-sump skimmers though so I don't really know what I'm doing or what I should be looking for, etc. Advice, recommendations, appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikS February 9, 2006 Share February 9, 2006 Ah skimmers....so many choices....a lot like buying a car :D More details needed. Quiet? Pump an issue? Footprint? Any preferences? If you don't mind the potential noise & electrical costs becketts are real tough to beat in the "bang for the buck" category. If you still want/could go in sump ASM is very good in the bang for the buck category. A nice compromise that works external is GEO. His recirc NW skimmers are very nice & a bonus is that if you have any special needs he will accomodate you (& support is very good). Might be a bit of a wait but well worth it. His standard skimmer is 8x28 recirc for $550 a good bargain. The only company I'd say "take a pass" to is EuroReef. Not to say it's a bad performer, it isn't.....but....compare size/tank ratings & you're in the Deltec $$$ range..........and a Deltec it ain't. GEO's New Home Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tang-away February 9, 2006 Share February 9, 2006 I know that if I had to buy a skimmer "not in sump" I would be buying a skimmer that has a collection cup that shuts the feed air off so that if it went crazy (bubling over) it would shut off skimming. My skimmer sometime goes crazy, usually when feeding certain types of food, and overflows. I could only imagine coming home to a skimmer that is going crazy and dumped alot of water on the floor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikS February 9, 2006 Share February 9, 2006 I know that if I had to buy a skimmer "not in sump" I would be buying a skimmer that has a collection cup that shuts the feed air off so that if it went crazy Good point - becketts are generally setup this way from the factory. NW skimmers aren't (unless a custom GEO arrangement). Would mean a collection drain & closing up the holes in the lid (along with a shut off external collection container). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tang-away February 9, 2006 Share February 9, 2006 Good point - becketts are generally setup this way from the factory. NW skimmers aren't (unless a custom GEO arrangement). Would mean a collection drain & closing up the holes in the lid (along with a shut off external collection container). 52654[/snapback] :D correct. This is the only way I would do an external skimmer. Someone with a beckett will step in an tell you about their skimmer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emissary February 10, 2006 Author Share February 10, 2006 More details needed. Quiet? Pump an issue? Footprint? Any preferences? If you don't mind the potential noise & electrical costs becketts are real tough to beat in the "bang for the buck" category. If you still want/could go in sump ASM is very good in the bang for the buck category. A nice compromise that works external is GEO. His recirc NW skimmers are very nice & a bonus is that if you have any special needs he will accomodate you (& support is very good). Might be a bit of a wait but well worth it. His standard skimmer is 8x28 recirc for $550 a good bargain. The only company I'd say "take a pass" to is EuroReef. Not to say it's a bad performer, it isn't.....but....compare size/tank ratings & you're in the Deltec $$$ range..........and a Deltec it ain't. GEO's New Home 52630[/snapback] Seems like $500+ is too much to pay for a skimmer? We're talking about a fish room here so loudness isn't TOO big a deal, but clearly I want no jet engines. Don't care about electrical costs as much. Care about efficiency, and easy to detach from system & clean. Is there a type of skimmer I should be looking at beyond Beckett? Downdraft? Counter current? Venturi? I've read pro/con summaries and they seem to point in the downdraft directions. Product recommendations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flowerseller February 10, 2006 Share February 10, 2006 The downdraft I made has an air shut off or back pressure push. I would think that if your skimmer has a collection cup with a hose you could do the same. The hose drains into a jug and is off the bottom of the jug by 3-4", once the end of the hose is under several inches of water it puts enough back pressure on the skimmer to squawsh the output pressure and makes it flow right on through. I still get the oxygenation during this "shutdown", just no real skimming due to the pressure. 14-15 years and no overflow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikS February 10, 2006 Share February 10, 2006 Yep, that's a fair chunk of change & a tough decision. Given the fact that most likely it's the single most important piece of equipment in what is a very expensive investment??? On the "bang for the buck" scale few skimmers can match an ASM. A G4+ goes for $358 plus shipping & is rated for a 250g tank (had one, that's a fair rating). Energy consumption is a pretty miserly 58w (NW config pumps use less than their standard versions). You look at Becketts & you see an MR-2 for $299....hmmmm...nice price....but...now you need to add a $100+ pump to take full advantage. Given the extra energy cost & you'll soon be in the same $500 range (and this cost will go up...up...& UP ). Those must be some old comparisons. Downdrafts are functional but really they've been surpassed by Becketts. Both require a strong pump (the beckett more so) but the beckett is generally accepted to produce more bubbles for the given input. Same can be said for needlewheels, they've generally supassed venturi designs. They can simply process more air & thus more effective. Counter currents can be made to work well but they require a very large design for a given tank - for a 180 it would have to be very large indeed. IMHO the most efficient design is the large air driven skimmer. Now that small pore ceramic air stones are available a lot of the maintainance has be overcome (replacing the limewood). A moderate linear piston air pump can move a massive amount of air & make a lot of bubbles. Downside is that to achieve proper contact time these skimmers have to tall AND no commercial versions = custom job = expensive. Here's a good thread about skimming principles: RC Skimming Principles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReefMon February 10, 2006 Share February 10, 2006 Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikS February 10, 2006 Share February 10, 2006 Nice deal, and even though he says "loud" it should be a pretty simple matter to build a muffler for the beckett (just copy something from MRC or somebody). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emissary February 11, 2006 Author Share February 11, 2006 I know that if I had to buy a skimmer "not in sump" I would be buying a skimmer that has a collection cup that shuts the feed air off so that if it went crazy (bubling over) it would shut off skimming. My skimmer sometime goes crazy, usually when feeding certain types of food, and overflows. I could only imagine coming home to a skimmer that is going crazy and dumped alot of water on the floor. 52653[/snapback] So as it turns out, I only care moderately about this. The skimmer will be on sloped tile near a drain, so worst case scenario I'll have a trail of wet skimmate running down to the drain. Can mop that up right quick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emissary February 11, 2006 Author Share February 11, 2006 Yep, that's a fair chunk of change & a tough decision. Given the fact that most likely it's the single most important piece of equipment in what is a very expensive investment??? Yeah okay, I clearly haven't been in the right market before. Money is now not an object I've reset expectations. On the "bang for the buck" scale few skimmers can match an ASM. A G4+ goes for $358 plus shipping & is rated for a 250g tank (had one, that's a fair rating). Energy consumption is a pretty miserly 58w (NW config pumps use less than their standard versions). Just can't do in-sump though. You look at Becketts & you see an MR-2 for $299....hmmmm...nice price....but...now you need to add a $100+ pump to take full advantage. Given the extra energy cost & you'll soon be in the same $500 range (and this cost will go up...up...& UP ). So this one seems attractive. I'll have to figure out how to plumb it all in, but that shouldn't be the most difficult thing in the world. Maybe I can pay close attention during some tank tours I was also looking at a used ETSS 800. Comparable to the GEO? RC Skimming Principles 52758[/snapback] Yeah so I read that thread -- seems to describe a lot of things to look for in a skimmer, but in a vaccum I'm not sure how it help me. Hard to know how each skimmer I'm looking at fares in every given area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ireland February 11, 2006 Share February 11, 2006 I was also looking at a used ETSS 800. 52805[/snapback] I had one of these a few years ago. IMO it is a good skimmer, I was never unhappy with the performance, but it is a PITA to clean and can be one of the more difficult skimmers to adjust. Not at all difficult to set up, but anyone who says it is "plug and play" has never used one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emissary February 11, 2006 Author Share February 11, 2006 I had one of these a few years ago. IMO it is a good skimmer, I was never unhappy with the performance, but it is a PITA to clean and can be one of the more difficult skimmers to adjust. Not at all difficult to set up, but anyone who says it is "plug and play" has never used one. 52808[/snapback] So I am about as lazy as they come. My major motivator for getting a new skimmer is that it's going to be a PITA to take my current one out of the sump and put it back in -- that means I'll clean it twice a year. No good. Ease of use/cleaning is paramount!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tang-away February 11, 2006 Share February 11, 2006 So as it turns out, I only care moderately about this. The skimmer will be on sloped tile near a drain, so worst case scenario I'll have a trail of wet skimmate running down to the drain. Can mop that up right quick. 52804[/snapback] Problem being, is that the skimmer would be out of sump and the overflowing skimmer will dump alot of water on the floor and can cause alot of problems in a sump when the water level gets low enough for the return pumps to not have any water to pump to the main tank. Add in if you have a float switch or other water top off that detects the low water level it would be dumping fresh water or kalk water (worst senario) into the sump and decrease your salinity and raising ph,alk levels through the roof. Big problem if this occors while your at work. I know when my ER goes crazy its not a little drip, its a constant flow over the top of the skimmer which goes right back into the sump. No harm no foul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emissary February 26, 2006 Author Share February 26, 2006 Okay so now with BRK being a Deltec dealer, I'm tempted to go all out and get the APF600. With essentially $100 off from BRK that's a good price for that skimmer. A bit more than the $500 or $550 I was looking at. But I'm thinking at this point that I probably won't be disappointed going with a Deltec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kragon February 26, 2006 Share February 26, 2006 I'm in a simular market, so I'm hearing Deltec is the best productive skimmer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikS February 26, 2006 Share February 26, 2006 If ease of use and set & forget it are important then you will not be dissapointed in a Deltec. Once in & tuned there are few skimmers as easy as a Deltec. Tuning takes about 5 minutes & from there on it's only cup cleaning. I make many jokes on the Deltec forum about they're so set it & forget it that I forget it's there...which impacts my cleaning Quiet efficient performance - Deltecs rule in this respect. If you ever want to see a Deltec in action shoot me a message & we can arrange something (or try Gadgets - he's another member of the club). Truth? Deltec does hurt the wallet.....but I've never regretted the purchase.....and I say this after messing around with quite a few skimmers. I got sick & tired of messing with the things trying to get them to perform & always had the nagging doubt "is it doing the job, could I get better performance". If nothing else it gives you the peace of mind "I KNOW the skimmer is getting the job done" Also - I've never (I mean never) had any color showing on a Nitrate (or Phosphate) test while using a Deltec........font glass get's cleaned every other week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emissary February 27, 2006 Author Share February 27, 2006 So it looks like I'm buying a new APF600 from BRK. I mean with a $100 gift certifcate on livestock, it's the time to buy. Would you believe -- it was my WIFE's idea. She figured I could get the skimmer and she could pick some livestock with her gift certificate Looking at the Deltec website, it appears the APF600 is what I want -- rated at 200G heavily stocked. I'll have a 180G + 90G sump not quite full. Sump shouldn't count as part of the water volume, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikS February 28, 2006 Share February 28, 2006 You should be pleased, especially if "set it & forget it" is a goal. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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