pumps

[GaryL]

Ill be setting up my 120g with a 75 gallon refugium.. but how do I determine the size of my over flows that i will have drilled and what is the rating of the pump (gph) that I use to pump back into the display tank without pumping too fast or too slow. Also I would like to do a closed loop with a SCWD for tubulance. Any ideas on what some of you all have done for that? Thanks in advance..... Gary

[iceman]

Gary,

 

A single 1.5" bulkhead will give you 1400 gallons per hour, a single 1.25" bulkhead will give 900 gph, a single 1" bulkhead will do 600 gph, and a 3/4" bulkhead will give you 350 gph.  The standard reef ready tanks have two 1-inch bulkheads for the return which will give you about 1200 gph.  These tanks also have two 3/4" bulkheads to use for returns.

 

Once you determine what flow you want in your tank, buy those bulkheads.  Once you have the bulkheads in hand, you can measure what size hole you will need to drill in your tank so that the bulkhead can fit properly.  Not all bulkheads have the same size, so its best to have the bulkheads and then drill the hole opening so that the bulkhead will fit through the hole.

 

When I had a reef ready 120g, I used a mak4 (or blueline 1100) pump externally for a return.  I added a ball valve on the return side of the pump to back down flow in case the return flow was too much (it wasn't on my tank).  I also used pvc to make a closed loop setup with an ampmaster 3000 and two 1" sea swirls.  

 

There are many variations you could use.  What pump are you looking at using?  

 

If you are going to have holes drilled, by all means get the largest possible and try to have one on each side.  For closed loops, the possibilities are endless.

 

Bob

[GaryL]

i just purchased a mag 7. i think ill use it for the closed loop. any thoughts on this pump? Gary

[Sph2sail]

I use a Mag7 for the return on my 90G system.  Decent flow from that pump.  Not a pressure rated pump, so it does not deal well with back pressure or a lot of head.

 

I find I definately have to clean it every couple months to avoid the impeller freezing up.  I had an incident where I ignored it for about 10 months and suddenly, no pump working.  Glad I had an extra impeller on hand.

 

good pump.  just pay attention to it now and again.

 

s

[iceman]

You can use a mag7 for a closed loop, but the manufacturer doesn't recommend using the pumps externally.  They have a tendency to leak around the baseplate.  There are many people that have used them externally, but be aware of a potential problem.

 

For a closed loop, it might be better to consider using an external type of pump.

 

What type of tank are you setting up?  SPS?  Softie?  Depending on what you are going to keep will help determine how much flow you would want.  An sps tank can take lots of flow while a softie or LPS tank would take alot less flow.

 

Can you tell us what you plan to keep?

[GaryL]

Oh sorry, I'm planning on keeping SPS, with some fish and inverts, ill have 3 250w MH (my tank is 72" long)and considering VHO actinics to suppliment the blue.

 

Im trying to piece the basics together so it wont be hard to change or add-on (when my budget or my wife will let me afford) :D

 even though Im a DIYer i will take it to the Reef tank to have drilled. but the rest i will post as it starts.

 

Gary

[Guest andrejka]

I have a Mag 9.5 on a closed loop in a 40 G.  No leaks so far (about a year), but flow isn't enough even for a 40 G (I have to supplement with 2 PHs).  So, I think that a Mag 7 won't be enough for a 120 G SPS system.  IMO, you'll need something like 3,000 gph.

[Guest andrejka]

P.S. It'll be OK for the return, though.

[SDBDRZ]

With a 72" long tank I do not think the MAG 7 on a closed loop will provide adequate flow for an SPS tank.  Could probably run it for a return.  I also do not like running MAG pumps externally.  I had a MAG 12 running externally for a while and it leaked and it was loud.  

 

I am of the opinion that more flow is better for SPS and if it is alternating type flow (seaswirl, SCQD, etc) it is hard to go overboard with flow.  I have a 180g (72" long) and I have four 1" seaswirls (1200GPH each) on a closed loop with a superampmaster 5600, two turbelle stream 6100 pumps(3000GPH each) w/controller and my return pump is a MAK4 1200gph running through a SCQD.  Sounds like a lot of flow and probably is a bit overkill but the corals look good and all are growing.  Some are growing like weeds.

[iceman]

Gary,

 

Something to consider....a closed loop can easily be upgraded when the finances come.  All you need is a bigger pump and some more PVC tubing.  Closed loops are easy to make and change, so don't worry too much about that now.  We can help you set one up with whatever pump you decide to start with now.

 

As for your initial question, if you are going to have the tank drilled you may as well get several holes drilled while the tank is empty (its alot harder to decide later that you wish you had more holes/flow).  If its possible, have two holes drilled that will accomodate 1.5" threaded bulkheads.  You can always use reducers to go smaller, but you will have the luxury of removing those fittings and going larger when you get a bigger pump.  The bottom line is buy the best pump(s) you can afford now and you can work with it.  One question, is your sump drilled to allow for an external pump or do you need to stick with a submersible type?

 

As SDBDRZ said, you can't have enough flow with SPS.  Its easy to add flow with closed loops.  I've seen his washing machine like tank in action...its amazing.  When I come home from his place, I always find myself thinking about adding another closed loop.  In time, you'll find you will want to add more, but go with what you can afford now.

[GaryL]

wow thanks for all the good info, my sump is not drilled but can be drilled. i was thinking of dividing the 75 gallon to double as a sump/refugium, but was also thinking of using the mag 7 as a return and leaving it submersed, after what i have learned from you all.            Gary

[iceman]

Gary,

 

I have a 150g sump/refuge in which I have my skimmer, live rock, DSB, macroalgae and a whatever else I throw in there.  I have it drilled which goes to my return pump back to my tank.

 

You can use the mag7 as a submersible return, but just be sure to partition it away from the refuge so that macro and critters don't clog the pump intake.

[GaryL]

I was at Nathan's (aquariareview) house the other day and got a pretty good idea for the sump/refugium- Do you guys perfer a in sump skimmer or freestanding or are there any pros and cons to either or just a matter of space? Reefmon and Nathan both gave me good ideas for skimmers

 

also do you guys have pics of the mechanics of your tanks?

thanks again, G

[GaryL]

Oh yeah i didnt mean to forget, i had seen Bob and Tamie Dewitt's (cowrie) refugium setup also, I had seen some really nice tanks that whole weekend of the meering. G

[Guest snapper]

FWIW, I run a mag 2400 on my 110 gal, and still use 4 maxi-jet 1200's inside the tank, and I'd say I have "just enough" flow.

 

I think a mag 7 is way too small to properly turnover a 120.  The smallest I'd go would be a mag 18, if using a sump.  

 

Eric

[michaelg]

I am running about 900gph through a sqwd return plus have a tunze powerhead in there (700+ gph).  This is on a 58.  It's a lot of flow, but not a lot of velocity (the bigger the output the less velocity and the sqwd is plumbed to come out 1" pipe).  I am seriously considering adding a closed loop with a seaswirl if I can find one cheap.  

Here is a bit of a schematic of how it is laid out.  Not much clutter to be honest.  The tunze is mounted on the overflow and hits about the front middle of the glass (though creates a lot of turbulence in the front corner).  s=scwd (these alternate), ss is possible placement of a seaswirl, the t= tunze powerhead.

 

|   S       SS            S  |

|      \                   /    |

| T                            |

|                               |

----------------------------

 

 

Michael

[Guest snapper]

Here's my spin on flow, these are anecdotal rules of thumb.  Have they been "proven" by scientific study, no.

 

  But, I will say that of all the successful SPS keepers I've seen, their flow volumes run pretty much true to the below.

 

1.  If you are not running any internal flow devices, like powerheads, etc...  a general rule of thumb is your return pump should be rated in the 15-20 times tank volume per hour.

<<<I've found that this is unrealistic having this much flow come back into the tank via one or two returns.  It creates zones of localized high flow, and dead zones where detritus wil accumulate.

 

2.  My best success has come from running a return at approximately 15 time tank volume per hour, then adding powerheads to even out the flow inside the tank on the oder of 10 tank volumes per hour.

 

The goal with a reef tank where you will be raing SPS is to have constant, undulating turbulent flow, that is strong enogh to reach interstitial areas of acros, yet "gentle" enough to not sand-blast the tissue off the coral.

 

If you are running a sump, with a refugium, a 10 times/hr turnover is about right, but, you must augment this with internal flow devices to ensure the best health of stony coral.

 

There are a few other "flow-nuts" here (vareefman and Reefmon) who can add balance to this thread.

 

As a starting figure, I always take my tank volume, multiply by 2, then add a zero at the end, and that is the minumum rated pump I would use.  so, for a 120...240 plus a zero...2400 gallons per hour.  But I'm way far over the reef-keeping edge...

 

Eric

[krish]

I have a 120G as well.

A 4x2x2ft tank.

It has 2 1.5" dia PVC standpipes for the overflows.

The holes were about2 7/8" dia for the bulkheads.

 

The returns are 1.5" rigid PVC plumbing, which then splits

with a "Y" to 2 returns of 1.5" as well.

 

I went with the bigger dia just incase if something gets into

and blocks the water.

 

I have a CSL velocity T4. I used to have an Iwaki 40RLT.

At about 5ft or so of head, i should be getting about

say 800gph or so, even as the T4 is rated at 1400gph at

zero ft.

 

In addition to that, i have a Mag7 closed loop.

I used it with a SCWD. what a pita. I now have a

1/2" sea swirl and the corals are much happier. I also

have a Hagen 802 along the back wall of the tank.

This is the only power head inside the tank.

 

So the total flow is around

800(T4)+400(hagen 802)+500( for Mag7)= 1700gph.

 

The tank will be happier with even more flow i guess.

Someday, i will DIY 2 sea swirl like gadgets for the returns.

 

IMHO, Toss the SCWD out. It is good only for small tanks or

you would need more than 1 SCWD for a 6ft tank.

 

For a skimmer, i have a ASM G3 skimmer from

champion lighting.

 

I empty it every week. I have quite some fish.

The corals are all softies/sps/lps frags. It is a great skimmer.

 

-krish