Guest Keyoke June 28, 2005 Share June 28, 2005 So it's time, finally to upgrade to MH. Anyone have any suggestions for a 90G? This is a general reef, not targeted at SPS/LPS/Softies, just something that'll be good all the way around. I was thinking about doing a dual 250W retro, but can't seem to decide on a vendor, bulb type, etc. HQI v.s. single ended? - Aside from the UV shielding requirements, is there any other benifits to HQI? Probe Start v.s. Pulse - I'm leaning towards an electronic ballast, so hopefully this won't be an issue. Ballast manufacturer? Venture? BlueLine? Sunlight Supply? Others? I'm running 4x PC bulbs now, 96 Watt versions, but it's just not enough. Besides I like the 'shimmer' that point-light sources provide, and I eventually want to get to the point of a clam, and a few SPS's w/o having to put them a half inch below the lights. I'm not married to anything at this point, and am toying with the idea of 175W instead of 250's, but again I humbly ask for suggestions from Those Who Have Gone Before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emissary June 28, 2005 Share June 28, 2005 Ha! That's funny. These are all the same questions I had about three months ago. There was a lighting comparison party just as I joined WAMAS that I missed, hbut I read the thread. Granted I'm looking to light a 180... but the questions are the same. I ended up going with whatever turned up on sale here on WAMAS. Sunlight Supply ballasts, 250W Ushio 10K. I'll probably supplement with actinics or smartlamps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Folta June 29, 2005 Share June 29, 2005 Just bumping this up. I think I'm going to upgrade my lighting to MH's as well, so I can start getting acros, etc. So, lets discuss different brands: DE vs. SE Reflectors (very important imo to get the most out of your lights, whatever you choose) wattage (prices for bulb replacement vs. wattage output - 2 400's cheaper/better than 3 250's? etc) ballasts (electronic vs. magnetic, cost, utility, differences in resulting lighting, etc) pendants vs. retrofit kits (cost, output, etc) Bulb colors (maybe some people would be kind enough to provide pictures of their tanks with their bulbs in this thread and list their bulb colors - keeping in mind that it is different in person though) Hopefully there are some people here who can give some valuable insight, as I'm sure most people who get into this wonderful hobby and stick with it want to upgrade to MH bulbs at some point, and I think this would make a good reference to have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishface June 29, 2005 Share June 29, 2005 Check out the analysis on bulbs by Sanjay Joshi. A web search will find his work and others -such as http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-06/jg/index.htm. These papers are really helpful. Some aquarist's analysis suggest that for most tanks under 24 inches there's no point in gettting 400 watts bulbs. I think his paper on the 400w bulbs might support his. And the cost to run them daily is significantly higher. IMO though a 250 is usually not much more expensive than the 175. In any case be sensitive to corals and research them to know and observe which corals do not tolerate the extra light. They may exist but not thrive if they are sort of cowering under a light that's too powerful. And when adding light, or just changing bulbs- or even suddenly filtering the water more aggressivley, be aware that the corals need to adjust, so raise the light if you have pendants, or use screens to reduce the intensity. Otherwise your brand new bulbs may bleach the corals that you bought them for. Now the whole issue is not about watts, but about PAR, Photosynthetically Available Radiation. After someone was asking about buying a PAR meter the WAMAS offices decided to buy one to rent out. Stay tuned. FF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Folta June 29, 2005 Share June 29, 2005 Fishface, thank you for your response. I've heard that before about the PAR rating. Maybe after getting the par meter, people in the club that run MH's can add their bulb type / reflector / etc to a thread. Or, perhaps even better, if the webmaster could make a section with this type of information? I've been following that thread about the PAR meter, but didn't chime in as I don't have MH yet. Although, maybe it'd be worth it to see how much light my jebo 260w pc lighting is really putting out Thanks for the link, I'll have to read through it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Folta June 30, 2005 Share June 30, 2005 Ok, so let me just make sure I know of everything to get for a metal halide setup. This is under the assumption that I'm not using a canopy, and going with a pair of 250 watt bulbs. 1. 250w Metal Halide Bulb x2 2. Pendant x2 (or should this be 'reflector' ?) 3. Ballast x2 4. Wiring x2 Ok, so wiring would go from the outlet to the ballast, then the ballast to the pendant (reflectors?). I would need 2 grounded power cords that connect from the outlet to the ballast, and then 18 gauge wire to connec the ballasts to the bulbs. Right? Currently, I'm leaning toward the XM 10,000 for bulbs, no actinic supplementation at the moment, but will add down the road. Ballast, I'm leaning toward magnetic for the price, also the par rating I've found seems to be slightly higher with this over the electronic ballasts I've seen. (Icecap, ARO, CoralVue, Blueline..) Does anyone have this setup? Also, I know there was a thread about MH bulbs a few months ago, anyone have the link to that thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Keyoke July 1, 2005 Share July 1, 2005 I guess what I was hoping for, was a breakdown on bang-for-your-buck kind of deal. I've read the threads and the breakdown on PAR, as well as the other MH suggestion posts (I've even responded to a few) - I'm pretty comfortable with the theory and technology.. now I'm more interested in people's experiences with varoius equipment and wether or not they would go that route again (e.g. DE vs SE, ballast mfgr, etc) - especially interested to hear from folks who've made the jump to MH on limited budgets in the past.. What's a good balast? PFO? Sunlight Supply? CoolTouch? Blueline? What's a good bulb? Phoenix? XM? Coralife? Iwaski? Ushio? What do you run currently? What would you change if you had to do it all over again on a limited budget? If your grandmother, who rescued you from being raised by wolves in the wilderness, showed nothing but love and care and spoiled you rotten but made sure you turned out into the great person you are today got bit by the reef bug, and refused ALL help from you monetarialy, what would you suggest she use on a limited budget? That kinda thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Keyoke July 3, 2005 Share July 3, 2005 ok, so I'm digging and digging and digging thru articles and research papers.. I happened upon Sanjay's site http://www.reeflightinginfo.arvixe.com which appears to have plots and spectral analysis for almost every flipping bulb and ballast combination on the planet. In digging, I've noticed that it would appear that the PFO M80 ballast works the best with the XM bulbs (both 14 and 10K have PPFDs in the 100's on the M80) But the M80 is an HQI, while the XMs are SE bulbs? What gives? Did I miss something on those PFO balasts that lets them operate both Probe and HQI style bulbs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Folta July 3, 2005 Share July 3, 2005 I believe the m80 ballast would just overdrive the bulb. On http://www.cnidarianreef.com/lamps.cfm you can see that the par ratings for the m80 ballast are higher for pretty much all the bulbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Folta July 3, 2005 Share July 3, 2005 How big are the lumenarc reflectors? My current tank, a 55 gallon, is only 13" from front to back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emissary July 3, 2005 Share July 3, 2005 How big are the lumenarc reflectors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Folta July 3, 2005 Share July 3, 2005 Ah.. so it would be too big to be used over my 55... Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex wlazlak July 4, 2005 Share July 4, 2005 so i have a 55 gallon tank with the coralife 48" Aqualight 4-65W Lamp Str Pin, with 2 65w actinics, and 2 65w 10k. right now thats probly more than enough for what i have, BUT is that enough lighting for say some zoo's, some (pulsing) xenia's, and mushrooms??(im not gonna have too many of these, but only a few)and would that same lighting be okay for a 110 gallon tank that ill probly have atleast by next fall??but i have the same question as everyone else does too, in a nut shell, what is a good, CHEAP, i guess "low" energy coast (but i dont pay the bills so it doesnt matter to me! ) MH setup?cause iv'e only been looking (and dreaming) at the 48" Outer Orbit 2x150W HQI-MH w/Actinics,and the 48" aqualight pro with the 2 150w hqi-MH and actinics, because they are all together and i dont have to put it together and screw somthing up with a DIY project or somthing, the orbit is cheaper and has higher wattage, at $650.so can anyone actually tell me what they have for a 48 inch long tank, and how much they paid for it???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tburrs July 5, 2005 Share July 5, 2005 After a lot of research I decided to go with two Reef Optix III+ pendants with Phoenix 14K bulbs and a Blue Wave VII dual HQI ballast. I am very impressed with the performance and very happy with the purchase. I got everything from Premium Aquatics (http://www.premiumaquatics.com/) for under $600. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex wlazlak July 6, 2005 Share July 6, 2005 (edited) hmmm.couldnt find it :(. i do like the 48" Outer Orbit 2x150w 10K Hqi w/4x65w PC & Lunar light setup is. and its everything you need for a litle under $700..think thats a good light?and at www.thatfishplace.com i can get it for $650. Edited July 6, 2005 by alex wlazlak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex wlazlak July 6, 2005 Share July 6, 2005 so on the site www.drsfostersmith.com, i guess from what you said is good, id go for the reef optix III plus double ended reflector 250 watt (x2), blue wave VI magnetic ballest 250 watt(x2) (or the blue wave IV electronic ballast(x2)), with with german made 250 watt 10k (x2).would i want to go with the electronic ballast for $360 (x2)(ouch!!) or the magnetic ballast for $115? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex wlazlak July 6, 2005 Share July 6, 2005 actually id probly go for the reef optix II retrofit reflectorx2,blue wave IV x2 (yikes$$$$),2 250watt bulbs dont know what kind. that'd all be more than $900. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex wlazlak July 6, 2005 Share July 6, 2005 im starting to think that the orbit powercompacts extreme 48" with 4 130 watt bulbs with 4 lunar lights for $600.i dont think im ever going to get sps corals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tburrs July 6, 2005 Share July 6, 2005 this is what I got.... http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merchant2/m...&Category_Code= http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merchant2/m...&Category_Code= http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merchant2/m...&Category_Code= 2 - 250w pendants 2 - 14K bulbs 1 - dual remote magnetic ballast I too was considering the orbit and the aqualight, but the max wattage for the MH lamps is 150w. I wanted a more powerful light so I can grow any type of coral in the future. By going with two pendants with 14K bulbs it also eliminates the need for actinic lighting. So again, the total for all the lighting was under $600. You get much better lights for less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex wlazlak July 6, 2005 Share July 6, 2005 (edited) i read that with the magnetic ballest the bulbs need to be replaced every 10-12 months, unlike the electronic ballest, which lights need to be replaced every 18-24 months.but it is a big price difference with the ballests..i dont think i'd need all that power for what im going to keep, mostly only softies, cause i like them more...i do like the setup that you have, or atleast it sounds great!do you have any pictures??i'd like to see it setup and running with your tank. here's a good link i found, http://www.thatpetplace.com/Products/KW/F5...5/Itemdy00.aspx it looks pretty nice..i also like this one http://www.thatpetplace.com/Products/KW/F5...1/Itemdy00.aspx , or the http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merchant2/m...urrentusa ..tell://http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merc...rrentusa ..tell me what you think of them?i also had there two in mind, http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merchant2/m...Coralife-halide , and the http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merchant2/m..._Code=Current-H. i really like the orbit MH and PC combo ..so tell me what you guys think of all of them! Edited July 6, 2005 by alex wlazlak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Keyoke July 6, 2005 Share July 6, 2005 I'm half tempted to do this DIY for the most part - pickup a pendant shell or two, or do a retrofit on a outdoor halogen lamp, find some ballasts on ebay, and be done with it. I'm estimating $250-$300 for MH if I go that route using the following: Could go this route: Bare 250W Ballast Kit - then all i'd need is a bulb, socket & something to stick the ballast in.. or, if I wanted an electronic ballast - 250 Retro with ARO for $175, I bought my skimmer from this guy, and he was easy to deal with so.. Or 250 ballst & socket course with almost any of the above, I'd need a reflector.. like this one here Course, I'd need two of everything above.. ballasts say $100, plus a case for 'em $20-$30, plus reflectors $50, plus wiring and other misc stuff $20 or so.. so $200-$250ish, which isn't bad. $230 gets me a dual 250W MH + Reflector from cooltouch... Bah. Decisions, decisions... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Keyoke July 6, 2005 Share July 6, 2005 Oh, and for the retrofit of a Halogen to MH light, incase y'all haven't seen this - DIY MH 70W or 150W DE - it's a little dated, but I was in HD the other day and found the lamps they talk about for about $14.00. There's a wal-mart version of the lamp for like $10. It's a lot to go thru, but the 500W halogen lamp fixture works better'n the 300, and you can suppoedly do 250W DE bulbs in 'em... If I was just gonna hide these things in my canopy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex wlazlak July 6, 2005 Share July 6, 2005 but you dont think that the reef optix II could be good for a retrofit?...i do, then get the double ballest thing..it ends up being a little more than $600 with lights if you round the math..but i think from what iv'e read (not too much) the orbit MH and PC combo fixture is bretty good..anyone got it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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