Somrthins just not right update

[ctreptow]

Hi All

 

I just wanted to update you all on the progress of algea problems.

 

At the suggestion of members in the group I decided to remove my DSB about 3 weeks ago. Since removing the sand the tank has made a remarkable improvement. The hair algea growing on the back of the tank has all but dissappeared and corals I have never seen grow are showing signs of growth.

 

What a change!!!

 

 

Thanks Guys you're the best.

 

Chris

[flowerseller]

Glad to hear your happy but so sorry to see it go.

What media did you use as your DSB?

 

If it was Southdown, I can see why you removed it but you may have been able to simply reduce it's depth. It's just very fine CC

 

I have a 3"-5" bed of well graded CC and have since 1989.

When we moved 7ish years ago, we brought it with us and then added a little more.

I think the very small grain sand alone does not allow for good oxygenation of the sand bed itself.

As with any sand bed, you need to have excellent circulation and current throughout the tank which causes lots of turbulence at the waters surface. This turbulence is for gas exchange and oxygenation which I believe is probably the biggest reason people "fail" with a DSB.

 

I believe the small grained sands are best suited for a sprinkling to cover the bottom and not as a DSB.

You can not have enough benificial current in a tank with small grained sand since it would carry it off and suspend it or pile it up, defeating the purpose in the first place.

 

On the other hand, I have battery powered air pumps and a generator ready to hook up since in a power failure, my sand bed sucks the oxygen and after 6-8 hours, I have a problem soon after that.

[craby]

Anyone want to buy about 40 lbs of Aragonite sugar sand? $20 obo. LMN.

[Lee Stearns]

This is a difficult subject with lots of folks on many sides of this fence-

DSB--- what is it? what is its functions? The standard answer is an anerobic place for the Nitrates to break down to N2 gas- which you can see being formed in bubbles in even my own 2-3 inch bed. Is a DSB 3-5 inches or greater than 6 inches? what do the folks who like the sand look and the biodiversity call their 1-3 inch sand beds. Any difference? I choose the two to three inch sand bed after doing a lot of reading, and on line and at RC. My view is the sand bed acts as a sponge- It makes up for small mistakes in overfeeding,absorbs some phosphates, releases some buffer and some calcium to the water- does some bio filtration- makes reefkeeping easier. I would say that as a sponge they make get filled to capacity and then begin leaching back some of the phosphates it absorbed, which is why sometimes algea begins to grow on the sand and rocks. This is not your only cause, most of the time it is additional Nitrates that agea need to feed.

I think a partial input of new sand to the tank each year while sharing a cup full at a time overt the year with as many who would like the biodiverity that your tank may have is a great thing and replinishes the sponge/buffering capacity. I do belive it is somewhat like the hot topic on cooking rocks where folks are trying to leach out the phosphates and other stuff in thieir rock and then reusing them- I believe that is kind of crazy and can be accomplished with better flow in the tank and the liberal use of a turkey baster in the holes on your rock- I never ceases to amaze me at how much sand and ditrius comes form the pores in my rocks when I flush them with a turkey baster. There is obviously some kind of biological reaction going on in there and flow is the key to keeping it going.

 

Everyone has different views- Most would say flow is good- and lighting is critical to many corals growth- but everything else is pretty much up for discussion.

We feed our tanks with calcium and food- coral and coraline growth can take care of balancing the calcium input, but fish and coral growth can not take care of all the ultimate nutrient export over time. I know the poop changes to smaller and smaller ditrius but at some point something has to take it out of the tank- either plant, mechanical filters, fractionization through a skimmer, charcoal changes- or settled into the sand bed where it is trapped.

Along comes my change out a bit of your sand bed yearly theory to recharge the sponge characteristics. I have from time to time had one of my maxi jets loose it suction cup grip and start making a sand storm in the watercolumn- The tank is hazy for a day until I can get the pump back in place and the wtaer column eventualy cleared. I think these events are actualy beneficial- but have no observable data that I can correllate to these events such as more open polyps or increased growth, but then my tank is less than 18 months running and I have always had pretty good growth going on. I am not ready to give up the sand or biodiversity yet.

 

Chris for info puposes how deep was your DSB?

How long had you been running with it?

Corals feed on bacteria too- maybe a correlation in the perking up of your corals and the removing of the Sand bed was the stirring up of bacteria in the water column?

Are you bare bottom tank now? Maybe the flow has increased with your focused attention to keep the glass bottom clean and is feeding the corals as well-

[HowardofNOVA]

Chris,

I agree with both Chip that you need some sandbed for nothing else, appearance!

IMHO, An aquarium without sand is a Petstore's show tank, again just my opinion.

 

On Lee's :"I would say that as a sponge they make get filled to capacity and then begin leaching back some of the phosphates it absorbed, which is why sometimes algea begins to grow on the sand and rocks. "

THIS is why I'm a big believer in alot of critters in the tank, Nassarius Snails with keep the sand moving and keep down the build up of Nitrates.

 

I guess in a nutshell, everyone has their own opinions on what looks good and not, but I'm a fan of a shallower sandbed.

Howard

[ctreptow]

Hi Guys

 

I do agree with all. I had a sandbed that was about 5 inches on 1 side and 3 on the other. My tank is a 75 gallon and I have 3 maxijet 1200's and 1 SEIO Superflow 850 for circulation with about 600G an hour to the sump. I didn't remove all the sand I still have about 1/2 inch on the bottom for my snails the play in.

 

When I set the new 75G tank up I moved 40Lbs of sand from my old 30G setup. The sand was 3 years old and I think it was already saturated with crap. I do have a 20 gallon refug that has a DSB and my other 75G tank that shares the sump still has a DSB. I am going to play with the setup over time but I do like the shallow sand bed in the SPS tank.

 

 

I will keep you updated my progress.

 

Chris

[Lee Stearns]

Ok-- I was worried you had somehow fallen to the dark side-- into the bare bottom glass tank route- You still have a fuge that has a sand bed, and even 1/2 inch play sand is some critter territory with your live rock and rubble touching it.

Keep us posted how this works out for you.

Regards,

Lee

[ctreptow]

LOL!!

 

Thanks Lee

 

No I don't think I could deal with a bare glass bottom maybe starboard but not glass. I do feel a DSB does have many benefits but I didn't realize how devistating it could be when they start to go. I like having it in the refug since then if it starts to go I can replace it easily.

 

Chris

[sde219]

LOL!!

 

Thanks Lee

 

No I don't think I could deal with a bare glass bottom maybe starboard but not glass. I do feel a DSB does have many benefits but I didn't realize how devistating it could be when they start to go. I like having it in the refug since then if it starts to go I can replace it easily.

 

Chris

27559[/snapback]

 

Does anyone know what actions keep a sandbed safe long-term? I guess I shouldn't be too worried with my new tank since odds are I will move before it would ever go bad but ya know it helps to know what works.

 

A number of people seem to have had truly long-term success with sand. Has there been any informal poll of Wamas reefers about sandbed success and procedures?

 

Clearly some distinction between DSB and shallow (1/2" to 1") should be made but I'm really interested in what locals have succeeded with.