Sharkey18 December 22, 2009 December 22, 2009 Well after much thought I have decided to put my 300g custom-in-wall system on hold. Just a bit too pricey right now. That means I am going to set up the 120 I have sitting in the back room. To get started I need recommendations on a return pump. It has dual internal overflows . Since I am setting this up in the living room, all equipment needs to fit in the stand and noise is a factor. I have decided not to add a closed loop since I think I can get enough flow and motion with vortechs and alternating return flow. Suggestions on skimmers, reactors etc also welcome... I plan on getting all plumbing / hardware set up as soon as possible and then starting to look for sand and LR. Thanks for the help! Laura
rhang December 22, 2009 December 22, 2009 Well after much thought I have decided to put my 300g custom-in-wall system on hold. Just a bit too pricey right now. That means I am going to set up the 120 I have sitting in the back room. To get started I need recommendations on a return pump. It has dual internal overflows . Since I am setting this up in the living room, all equipment needs to fit in the stand and noise is a factor. I have decided not to add a closed loop since I think I can get enough flow and motion with vortechs and alternating return flow. Suggestions on skimmers, reactors etc also welcome... I plan on getting all plumbing / hardware set up as soon as possible and then starting to look for sand and LR. Thanks for the help! Laura The Octopus NWB200 is rated for 250gal and should do a good job pulling stuff out. With dual overflows, I would go with a MAG12. -Rey
onux20 December 22, 2009 December 22, 2009 I have a 120 with 2X1.5in overflows and 2X.75 in returns MP40 Dart dialed waaaaaaaay back. I have the dart in the furnace room so I cant hear it, but I think its pretty quiet anyway. But if you are putting everything in the stand I guess an internal pump would be a better choice. ASM G-3 for a skimmer. Seems to do good work. But the height may be an issue for you. Maybe you can try going skimmerless like Zygote? Ron
steveoutlaw December 22, 2009 December 22, 2009 (edited) Don't skimp on the skimmer, go with a deltec. It will consistently pull the nasties out and is virtually silent. I had both the AP600 and the TS1250. Either of these would be good for your 120 and you can sometimes find a nice used one on RC. I have a Euro-reef on my current system, but only because a Deltec to fit my custom sump would have been too pricey. Edited December 22, 2009 by steveoutlaw
zygote2k December 22, 2009 December 22, 2009 like he said- go skimmerless with a sump/ fuge dedicated to chaeto and you'll do just fine and save a ton of money to boot. I'll even help you set it up.
Sharkey18 December 23, 2009 Author December 23, 2009 I would love to try skimmerless..... but I will definitely need help Rob! Laura
steveoutlaw December 23, 2009 December 23, 2009 I would love to try skimmerless..... but I will definitely need help Rob! Laura A 120 skimmerless???? How many and what kind of fish are you going to be keeping? Are you going to stock it with SPS? You better get another 120g for a refugium if you're going to run skimmerless with a high bioload..........or plan for daily water changes.
zygote2k December 23, 2009 December 23, 2009 A 120 skimmerless???? How many and what kind of fish are you going to be keeping? Are you going to stock it with SPS? You better get another 120g for a refugium if you're going to run skimmerless with a high bioload..........or plan for daily water changes. don't let the in-experienced scare you away from a 120 skimmerless. I believe a 40 breeder will fit inside a 120 stand. Make a small partition for the return pump, add a 4" DSB and grow chaeto on top. RDP light cyle too. You should be able to have 8 or 9 fish and SPS. I do.
sdah0414 December 23, 2009 December 23, 2009 I run a 120 without a skimmer. I'm lightly stocked on the SPS though. Runs everything fine. Skimmers are nice, but you can definitely get by without one if you run a good sized fuge.
steveoutlaw December 23, 2009 December 23, 2009 don't let the in-experienced scare you away from a 120 skimmerless. Yes, please don't let the inexperienced scare you. Go look at all of the tanks of the month over on RC and come back and tell me how many run skimmerless. You ask 99% if experienced reefers if you should get a skimmer or go skimmerless, and you'll be told to get a skimmer. It's your decision, but I would advise you to research this very thoroughly before making your decision.
Sharkey18 December 23, 2009 Author December 23, 2009 I appreciate everyone's opinions and advice. I am aware of the skimmer / no skimmer debate and don't really want my build becoming another debate over methods. I have skimmers on both my small tanks and love them. I am not wedded to a skimmerless tank. However, being a scientist, I am always up for a new experiment. I was intending for this build to go really slow anyhow. I am in no rush, especially when it comes to livestock. I am a fan of softies and LPS so I am not going to add a ton of SPS and watch them perish. My plan is to set it up as a skimmerless system. Add sand / rock / refugium and let it cycle. Then I can slowly add some livestock. If I keep really good data over a significant period of time and the tank does well... well then we have more data on skimmerless tanks. And maybe I can try and push the limits on what can be done without a skimmer. But since my personal goal is an awesome tank... not a skimmerless tank, I will add a skimmer if and when I decide I need it, such as if livestock doesn't thrive, or is too limited. I would welcome help / opinions through out this experiment (Especially since I am a plumbing and lighting idiot) and deciding what to stock, when to add it and when to add a skimmer if it gets to that. So suggestions for the experimental design? How would YOU set up this experiment? sdah0414: pics of your tank? Laura
OUsnakebyte December 23, 2009 December 23, 2009 One pump can run your entire system. I would get a slightly oversized Reeflo pump - Dart or Barracuda. These are some of the most quiet pumps I've used. I use a Dart on my 120 and have it running through a manifold I built so it runs my two return lines, skimmer, two media reactors (carbon and phosphate), calcium reactor and UV. There is a bypass line also plumbed in, but I have it valved off. If you go for the Barracuda, you can circulate the bypass back on the sump. 4' tank? If so, an external pump and 40 breeder won't fit. I have to use a 20 tall. I also have a closed loop through an Oceans Motions on a Snapper, but you said you don't want a closed loop. I just hate powerheads, that's all... I'll try to get some pics up later. Cheers Mike
zygote2k December 23, 2009 December 23, 2009 Quazi in Sterling has a 40 breeder in the bottom of his 120. 40 breeder is 36x18. You'll have 12" and 6" on end and side minus whatever stand bracing. It'll fit. If it were my set up, I'd run the drains from the overflows into one end of the sump with a baffle wall maybe 2" wide. Just enough for the drain pipes to fit. On the other side of the baffle wall would be your DSB and chaeto, then one more baffle wall for the return pump. Hang a light from the back brace of the stand and you are done. Very simple, clean, and easy to maintain. You could use a Mag 12 for the return with 2 eductors for increased flow. Maybe 2 bigger sized Koralias or a Vortech for circulation. If you need a heater, you can stuff 2) 100w in the pump chamber.
OUsnakebyte December 23, 2009 December 23, 2009 Yes, a 40 breeder will fit under a 4' 120 stand, but not with an external pump - Dart or Barracuda, or probably much else for that matter. I personally wouldn't even touch a Mag 12 - waaaaaay too noisy (even if you do put a pad under them), and they add crazy heat to a system, which is why I favor the external pumps. As far as I'm concerned, Mags are good for water change mixing and bins. Eductors are wonderful for increasing flow - I use them as well. I recommend the modular ones so you can change the direction as you see fit. The above sump setup sounds great. Cheers Mike
sdah0414 December 23, 2009 December 23, 2009 No good pics. All I have is the camera on my phone. I'll try to upload what I have when I get back to the house. As far as the skimmer debate goes, if you have the cash to spend, you will never go wrong with buying a skimmer. (A good one though). I choose not to run one because I have a large sump/refugium and didn't have the cash to get a good one. I've ran cheap ones in the past and never got anything out of them.
amay121 December 23, 2009 December 23, 2009 I have a 120 skimmerless with a 40g sump and no fuge. I'm growing SPS fine. I even have a Purple Tang, Yellow Tang, 4 Lyretails, and 4 clowns (2 in the sump) with no issues. Well, one small issue, I hate cleaning the glass every other day due to algae growth. But my SPS are growing. My ceriths are spawning like crazy. My mysis are swimming around like they love the place. So what's wrong with a skimmerless tank?
sdah0414 December 23, 2009 December 23, 2009 Nice. West Virginia going skimmerless. I'm sure someone can fit a redneck joke in there somehow...
amay121 December 23, 2009 December 23, 2009 Gonna be hard, especially since I'm Asian. But you can try if it makes you feel better. hehe.
sdah0414 December 23, 2009 December 23, 2009 (edited) Here are my shots. Crappy FTS Clams love it skimmerless Sump (Cheato ball is about 3 feet long) I have fish, they are just camera shy. Edited December 23, 2009 by sdah0414
OUsnakebyte December 23, 2009 December 23, 2009 There is absolutely nothing "wrong" with a skimmerless tank. They are by no means 100% necessary for an aquarium, but they can be good backup systems and another added means of filtration.
amay121 December 23, 2009 December 23, 2009 My water changes are either every other week or once a month depending on how lazy I am.
sdah0414 December 24, 2009 December 24, 2009 Same here. If I get lazy it's once a month, but usually once every two weeks I do about 30 -40 gallons.
sdah0414 December 24, 2009 December 24, 2009 I have about 200gal of water volume, The sump is my old acrylic tank that I replaced with a glass tank.
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